Official Languages Committee on Nov. 20th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Welcome to the third meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This morning, it is our pleasure to welcome the National Defence and Canadian Forces ombudsman, Mr. Yves Côté, and the director general of operations, Ms. Margaret Brandon. Thank you for having accepted the committee's invitation at such short notice.

As you are probably well aware, the committee proceeds as follows: witnesses have approximately 10 minutes to make their opening remarks, then the committee members have 7 minutes to ask questions, followed by further rounds of five- minute questions.

Mr. Côté, you have the floor.

[Yves Côté, Ombudsman, Office of the Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman]

I would like to begin by sincerely thanking the committee for inviting me to testify this morning on issues relating to the treatment of francophone recruits and students at Canadian Forces Base Borden, a large military training establishment north of Toronto, Ontario. As you already mentioned, Mr. Chairman, this morning I am accompanied by Ms. Margaret Brandon, the Director General of Operations in the Office of the Ombudsman.

Over the next few minutes, I will highlight some of the experiences that we have had with respect to the treatment of francophone recruits and students at Borden. In doing so, I will point to what I believe are very serious problems that go to the heart of fairness and the welfare of our Canadian Forces members—in this case, potentially hundreds of francophone members of our military.

I will also discuss the challenges that we have experienced in trying to get the senior military leadership to address, in a timely and tangible manner, the problems that we found in Borden. I can tell you that this has probably been the most frustrating case that I have experienced in my more than two years as military ombudsman.

When I travelled to Borden late last year as part of a routine outreach visit, I met with more than 40 francophone students who informed me of very serious difficulties they were experiencing in getting access to services and training in their first official language.

I will give you a few examples. Among other things, francophone students said to me they often received commands and instructions in English only, a language many did not understand. Also, I was told, it was not uncommon for francophone students to receive course assignments in English only, which they often did not understand and could not satisfactorily complete.

I was also told that francophone students being trained in vehicle maintenance were informed that a manual, which was available only in English, would not be translated. And the day before my visit, a career manager from Ottawa spoke only in English to a group of anglophone and francophone students, except for concluding his remarks by saying, and I quote: “Pour les francophones, c'est la même chose.”

As these examples show, there were very serious issues related to fundamental fairness, respect and the welfare of our newest Canadian Forces members.

Shortly after I returned to Ottawa, I wrote to the Chief of the Defence Staff to inform him of the problems I had encountered at Borden and to request immediate and longer-term action to ensure that francophone students were treated with respect and given every opportunity to succeed in their new careers.

In his response to our office, General Hillier committed to producing an official languages strategic plan with a number of medium- and long-term corrective measures to address the serious linguistic problems at Borden. In addition, we were told that a short-term action plan would be developed and that it would include additional funding and the immediate implementation of awareness education, the immediate introduction of a rapid feedback mechanism that would allow students to voice language concerns separate from the chain of command, and the immediate appointment of an official language champion from within the senior officer corps of CFB Borden.

It took some time for us to obtain a copy of this action plan. We finally received it in May. However, once we got it, we were generally satisfied with the proposed measures it contained. On the surface they appeared to be a good step in the right direction. After receiving a copy of the plan, I directed two of our investigators to conduct a follow-up examination at Borden to track anticipated progress and assess the results achieved for francophone students. They visited Borden in June.

Following surveys and town hall sessions with nearly 200 francophone students, our investigators found that the plan was in fact not being implemented as described to us, and that the situation was worse and more widespread than I had previously understood.

I was deeply disappointed to learn that, contrary to what I had been told, the vast majority of the short-term corrective actions that had been promised and that had been described as immediate and ongoing had not, indeed, been implemented at CFB Borden. By and large, francophone students remained unaware of their linguistic rights. Most of them did not know how or to whom to report problems and how to get effective help. Base services, including things such as medical care, were often provided in English to francophone students incapable of expressing their concerns in English.

In short, francophone recruits and students were experiencing unacceptable language barriers and felt isolated and alienated. It was also clear that their morale was suffering and that there was a serious risk that the professional development of these students was being hindered.

As this made it clear that no tangible action had been taken to address the very real problems at Borden, I formally requested the intervention of the previous Minister of National Defence, the Honourable Gordon O'Connor. I am pleased that following a meeting with him in July and thanks to the clear instructions given by the previous minister, it now appears that action is being taken to address the problems at Borden. Although I am encouraged by this, I remain disappointed in the length of time it took to begin addressing these fundamental fairness and welfare issues.

I should note that I have discussed this issue with Mr. Graham Fraser, the Commissioner of Official Languages, and we'll continue to keep him apprised of any developments in this matter. I also believe that Mr. Fraser may be undertaking a new initiative related to the issue of official languages in military schools and training establishments.

As far as next steps go, I remain committed to tracking the progress that is made at Borden to ensure that all Canadian Forces students are respected. I will review with great interest the report I have asked for from the chief of military personnel by early December. This will describe the results achieved on the ground at Borden. My investigators will again be travelling to Borden in early 2008 to assess the results that have been achieved.

And I intend to monitor very closely any linguistic challenges faced by other Canadian Forces members, English-speaking as well as French-speaking, during my future visits to our military bases, wings and schools across the country.

At this time, Mr. Chairman, we're ready to provide any assistance that we can to this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Côté.

As I indicated earlier, we will now go to our first round of questioning, beginning with Mr. Mauril Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Good morning, Mr. Côté and Ms. Brandon. Thank you for being here this morning.

In order to establish a legal obligation framework, can you tell us what legal framework the Department of National Defence and its practices are subject to, at CFB Borden in particular?

[Yves Côté]

It is clear, Mr. Chairman, that the Canadian Forces as a whole, including those working at CFB Borden, are covered by the directives and practices contained in the Official Languages Act.

The mandate of the Office of the Canadian Forces Ombudsman does not deal specifically with official languages issues, but rather with issues relating to the well-being and fair and equitable treatment of Canadian Forces members. It is on that basis that we have taken an interest in what is happening at Borden, given the negative impact that these issues were having on recruits and young members of the Canadian Forces there.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Given DND's obligations, which also apply to CFB Borden, what exactly does the department need to provide to recruits who are there for their training?

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, the work that we have done has not amounted to a strictly technical assessment of how the Official Languages Act has been implemented at Borden.

There are two or three extremely important points I would like to make. First, it seems absolutely clear to me that all Canadian Forces recruits, whether they are English-speaking or French-speaking, have the right to express themselves in the language they understand, in their first language learned, during their training. In the case of most people that we met at Borden, it is the only language that they understand and can use. They have the right to be answered in their language and, in particular, to feel that it is not a privilege, when they are asking to be served in their mother tongue. They are asking to be treated in a fair and equitable way, like any other Canadian citizen.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

In your opinion, that was not the case?

[Yves Côté]

In many examples contained in the correspondence that I sent to the Chief of Defence Staff, it really was not the case. I could mention one or two new examples that have not been given before.

This morning, I looked over the comments made by the recruits that we went back to see in June. Some of them mentioned that when they sent memos in French, for example, they were asked to take them back and translate them into English, or else the memo in French went to the bottom of the pile and no action was taken because the information was in French.

In my opening remarks, I mentioned that people who went to the medical clinic in Borden with health problems had to deal with service providers that could not interact with them because they did not understand French. This sort of thing has happened regularly at Borden.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

How did this come to your attention?

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, as the ombudsman for the Canadian Forces, part of my work is to make periodic visits to armed forces bases and wings across the country, as well as in Afghanistan, which I had the pleasure of visiting about a year ago.

During my visits, I tried to meet with forces members of all ranks and all backgrounds. When I spoke in that context to a group of French-speaking recruits at Borden, some of them told me that they were having problems. I met with three groups of between 12 and 15 people, for a total of about 40 people, and I asked them to explain what their daily life was like at Borden.

I was very struck by the comments made by a man, who was about 34 years old, originally from Chicoutimi, in the Saguenay—Lac-St-Jean region, where I come from. He told me that he was stationed at Borden and that he did not understand a word of English. When he was on the parade ground or in his company and people spoke to him for 25 or 30 minutes in English, it was as if he was hearing Chinese, since he did not understand anything. He told me that he tried to make them understand that he was having problems, and that he would like to be spoken to in a language that he understood, but they looked at him as if it was up to him to adapt. People even told him to learn English and to come back and see them later.

That is how I first learned about the problem at Borden. Then in June, we took a much more systematic and in-depth approach. We sent two investigators who met with 185 recruits.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Did you visit forces members on other bases, besides Borden, who made representations to you about not being able to use their mother tongue?

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, there have not been many formal complaints. Indeed, there have been very few. From the anecdotal evidence, however, it would seem—and this should be mentioned—that the same sorts of problems may arise for unilingual anglophones in Saint-Jean, for example, and for other francophones on other bases outside Quebec.

As I mentioned earlier this morning, the Commissioner of Official Languages has indicated that he intends to undertake an audit of some aspects of training in the Canadian Forces. So we are working closely with him on this issue.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I am curious to see how things are working in Saint-Jean. You feel that you should also see whether French-speaking members at other bases across the country are being effectively treated as full citizens. Do you intend to check this out in person and see whether this is the case at other military bases?

[Yves Côté]

That is certainly my intention, as I continue with my visits. Next week, in fact, Ms. Brandon and I will be at CFB Petawawa. I will also be visiting other bases. When I do, I certainly intend to ask questions and make sure that people feel comfortable raising this kind of problem, if it exists.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I have one last question, if I have any time left.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You will be able to ask your question in the next round, Mr. Bélanger, since your seven minutes have already expired.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

That is fine.

I will ask my question later, Mr. Côté.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will now go to Mr. Raymond Gravel.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Mr. Côté, thank you for your presentation.

You talked about problems in Saint-Jean, Quebec. Would the problem in Saint-Jean be the reverse of the problem in Borden?

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to be very clear about this. We have not carried out a systematic investigation of the language issue, except regarding the situation at Borden.

I said earlier that there had been very few complaints about this. That said, one can very well imagine that unilingual anglophones in Saint-Jean may face comparable or similar problems to what has gone on and may still be going on in Borden right now.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

You wrote recently, in a letter dated September 24, 2007, that the situation had improved. Listening to what you have to say today, the situation does not seem to have improved very much. Therefore, why did you write that letter? Has the situation actually improved at Borden?

[Yves Côté]

Mr. Chairman, we have not gone back to the base to assess the situation since June 23 or 24. In fact, after our meeting with Minister O'Connor, where a senior military officer was present, very clear instructions were given to the effect that the situation had to change.

We had been told that two very high-ranking officers went to Borden in connection with those instructions. We were given the speaking notes that they used, apparently, in speaking to the students, instructors and military leaders. Those notes indicate that the message was sent very clearly that things needed to change.

On the other hand, last week—I think it was Friday—an article was published in a newspaper called The Barrie Examiner relating an interview between the local journalists and the commander of the Canadian Defence Academy. The general was quoted as saying that the problem was not as serious as what I had described. He also felt, apparently, that I had been wrong in accusing the chain of command of reacting with little enthusiasm and dragging their feet a little bit. So he was to some extent questioning some of the things that I had done.

So when I see that kind of thing, which happened last week, on Friday as I said, I think it is a bit unfortunate. So, on the one hand, what we see in the official communications, etc., seems quite appropriate, but when I see someone like this general, who holds that kind of position and rank, I feel that it is somewhat regrettable and perhaps a bit worrisome to have this kind of thing reported in a newspaper article.

We have a photocopy of the article, which was written in English only. We could table it with the clerk, if you are interested.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes, of course.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Does the fact that there is still a problem prevent francophones from going to Borden?