Official Languages Committee on May 8th, 2008

[Michel Doucet]

It's not an entrance requirement, but—

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Is it a graduation requirement?

[Michel Doucet]

It's not a graduation requirement; it's a practical requirement.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

The only reason I bring it up—

[Michel Doucet]

It's not the same at UNB, for example.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

I understand, and I'm not pointing out in particular the University of Moncton, because it is a francophone school, and obviously the number of bilingual graduates you have would naturally be much higher, for the reasons you pointed out.

The only reason I bring that up is that in committee hearing after committee hearing, we often hear about the challenges in ensuring the French fact in Canada in its national institutions, yet we often, in my view, seem to be focusing on the symptoms rather than the fundamental causes. One of the questions I've always wondered about is why universities and law schools across the country, particularly anglophone ones, are not indicating to their students that if they see a career on the bench at some point in the future, they need to know both official languages.

I note that not even your law school has the requirement to have both official languages to graduate, yet we have these issues around ensuring that our national institutions can work in both languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very quickly.

[Michel Doucet]

Very briefly, Justice Bastarache, before he became a judge, presided over a committee in New Brunswick--the Barry-Bastarache committee--in 1980, and they suggested then that the provincial government make sure that any lawyer who graduates in New Brunswick from the two law schools be bilingual. Unfortunately, the bar association said no. If they had accepted that back then, maybe we would have more bilingual lawyers and judges, at least in New Brunswick.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

I want to inform committee members that, on our schedule, according to our study plan, once we finish discussing the collaboration agreements, the committee plans to examine postsecondary instruction in second languages and languages in general in the education sector.

Mr. Godin, go ahead, please.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I don't know whether I've already covered this ground, but I think as you do, Commissioner, when you say, and I quote:

I recognize that Minister Nicholson's practice of consulting with the chief justices on their specific needs in terms of bilingual capacity is a step in the right direction.

Are you satisfied with the results?

[Graham Fraser]

In my view, in a situation where bilingual capacity is a matter of self-assessment by candidates, we can't say that the results are as we would have desired. What is important, I believe—Mr. Chong moreover raised the question—is that, if law schools don't take the importance of the situation into account, we won't have a sufficient pool of lawyers. If we don't take into account the importance of linguistic ability in judicial appointments to the lower courts, there won't be a sufficient pool for the superior courts. This is an ecological system where you have to start at the beginning and explain to students that this is a very important requirement in order to aim for the top of the legal system.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

When Mr. Justice Bastarache made his recommendation, the bar didn't do any favours for the people it represented. If we're talking about ability, having the ability to interpret the law is one thing, but if law and argument don't meet, it's no longer a matter of ability. We've just lost that ability, not just as regards what's written on paper and interpretation. We have to understand that. We don't want to get it from a third party. That's not fair. And yet that's precisely what's happening now.

Personally, when I make a speech in the House of Commons, when I go back to my riding, people tell me that it's too bad I can't take 10 minutes to make a speech in one language and 10 minutes to make a speech in the other language, because they miss half of what I said. I'm not saying that to be nasty to the translators: it's that I speak too quickly. They can't follow me. The poor judge... I wouldn't want to be a lawyer and present an argument, because I wouldn't do a good job. In Acadian, we say: “I wouldn't do a good job, I guarantee you that.” That's the problem.

Mr. Coderre stole my idea earlier. I had the idea of introducing a private bill. I believe you'll have the support—

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I have a point of order. Mr. Chairman, it's not acceptable to say that, because the member, who had three chances to speak before me, wasn't quick enough... He's starting to say that we're stealing his ideas. He should focus on Manitoba's New Democratic government, which hasn't done its job with regard to rights.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Coderre, that's more a point of debate.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Coderre, with regard to your point of order—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

It's not a point of order, but a point of debate.

Continue, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

When we talk about the Federal Court, it's the Liberal government that didn't act during the 13 years it was in power. We're talking about federal appointments; it's not the NDP government in Manitoba—

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

We say “nomination”, Mr. Godin. The word “appointment” isn't from where we come from.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Despite Mr. Coderre's sudden annoyance, he'll have support. He should at least be proud that I support a bill. I don't think he liked the word “steal”, and that's normal; that's all right. Let's say he borrowed my idea. They say pickpocket in English.

We're looking for solutions. This is 2008 and we've been fighting for this for 40 years. It's been more like 400 or 402 years. The Acadians arrived before the Quebeckers. They celebrated their 400th anniversary two years ago. We could say that within a short period of time, that's what the act will provide and that we must prepare accordingly. In future, lawyers who want to become judges will have to do their homework.

Is that a good idea?

[Graham Fraser]

I've often told people who complain about linguistic obligations in the public service that, if a young person wants to be a judge, he has to start by going to law school. I don't complain about the fact that I wasn't appointed judge, since I didn't go to law school. Similarly, if you want to become a Supreme Court justice, you should prepare for it. There are specialized training courses for judges. I know judges who are taking those courses to maintain their level of French and to develop. They are very satisfied with them.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.

And that brings our meeting to an end. We have to vacate the room by 11 o'clock. I want to thank our witnesses for their invaluable comments, as well as parliamentarians. We'll see each other next week to continue the business on the Canada-community agreements. Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.