Official Languages Committee on May 13th, 2008

[Hubert Lussier]

We are evaluating all the official languages programs, including these ones, among others, and we started a dialogue with the communities last year, specifically on those agreements. It's a little too early to say how that will materialize, but I'm convinced that we'll make improvements along the lines of what my colleague just said. That may be very simple things, such as a new form that is easier to complete, or tougher service standards respecting the time spent analyzing files and recommendations, but it could also be more ambitious things. We could go so far as to completely change the architecture of these agreements. We're open to those kinds of possibilities.

Was that the perfect model? Probably not. I won't conceal the fact that certain groups would like us to simplify matters to the point of writing a single cheque, that is to say of having programs delivered by third parties. That raises administrative and legal problems. It's nevertheless one of the wishes expressed by some organizations. I believe they informed this committee of that fact.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lussier.

Now it's the turn of Mr. Nadeau, who will share his time with Ms. Bonsant.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

At the interdepartmental level, what is the total amount of funding from Canadian Heritage, Health Canada, Justice Canada and Industry Canada? I'd like to get some separate answers for the anglophone and francophone minority communities. Do you have those figures? I'm asking all of you. Does that count when you review the requests? When an organization makes a request to the wrong department, in your experience, do the other departments give that request the same attention as you do?

[Jean-Bernard Lafontaine]

Since a number of departments do have responsibilities, it will definitely be possible for the committee to obtain the amounts spent by each of them. Those amounts don't transit through the Department of Canadian Heritage. I'm thinking in particular of what Health Canada spends on the Réseau Santé en français across the country. It's the same thing for Industry Canada. Each department could therefore present what it spends specifically in the context of its positive measures to support the communities.

In the field, when we see that certain requests don't fit with the programs of the Department of Canadian Heritage, we try to find the department to which they are appropriate. At Canadian Heritage, for example, we work very closely, in the economic field, with the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency (ACOA). It has an economic development responsibility. If there is an economic development component for an Acadian community, we will definitely contact ACOA to send it a request that falls more within its mandate and responsibilities. I believe that people are increasingly aware of the fact that they must support the communities on a proactive basis.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Lussier, is there a committee where your counterparts from various departments meet to facilitate matters for the communities making requests?

[Hubert Lussier]

Yes, there are mechanisms in that respect. There is a coordinators network, including in the regions, that ensures that everyone knows what the communities want and acts as a switchboard. Perhaps Jean-Bernard could say more on how that works in the Atlantic region. It's a bit different in each region. This coordinating task is facilitated by people from the Department of Canadian Heritage.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I turn the floor over to Ms. Bonsant.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

This is the first time I've sat on this committee.

In my riding, an organization called the Association of Townshippers works very well with anglophones and the official language minority across the territory. Between 2001 and 2006, the percentage of anglophones declined, but the budget for that organization increased.

Are your calculations based on the percentage of anglophones and the size of the territory? That organization covers a very big territory. I'd like to know whether your calculations are based on those two criteria.

[Hubert Lussier]

To date, when I've had to answer questions of that kind, they were about the size of the general envelope allocated to one province in particular. So you're asking a question that concerns the contribution made to one of the members of the provincial networks, the Townshippers. I don't know what factors prevailed when it came to determining the funding granted to the Townshippers. Demographic criteria may have played a role, but, in my view, it was more issues that have to do with the organization's impact, results and actual offer of services.

[France Bonsant, Bloc, Compton—Stanstead, QC]

Yes, because there are a lot of sectors in the Townshippers, Mr. Lussier. There is the education sector. There are also young anglophone mothers who are heads of single-parent families who are going back to finish high school. So the Townshippers work with them. There are isolated anglophones who want to learn a little French because the young people have left the area and the others have remained, so they want to get a little more involved in the community. That's very widespread, and the people are virtually everywhere. So I was wondering whether the territory entered into consideration because there are an anglophone Cegep and university in that area. However, there are fewer and fewer anglophones attending them: 65% of the students are francophones. That's Bishop's University, a real gem.

[Hubert Lussier]

Yes, the dynamic of the Eastern Townships is really interesting. It's a demographically declining community, one of Quebec's traditionally anglophone communities where they're experiencing that phenomenon, which is quite frequent in the entire region east of Montreal and in the anglophone school system. A lot of students are not really taking part in anglophone culture because they are children of exogamous families that speak French in the home. In some respects, that's positive, to the extent that they will learn English, but be perfectly comfortable in French. From a cultural standpoint, that represents some challenges because the school wonders what its community mandate is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Bonsant.

We'll now complete the second round with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

When we talk about the Canada-community agreements, is that related to the Action Plan for Official Languages in a way?

[Hubert Lussier]

Not directly, to the extent that the Canada-community agreements are expiring. They should have been renewed or something else should have been done, whether or not there was a plan.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Has the action plan taken its place?

[Hubert Lussier]

Indeed, and the action plan reinforced the phenomenon that Jean-Bernard described, which has to do with the fact that Canadian Heritage is one federal player among others, which are increasingly important, including Health Canada and Citizenship and Immigration Canada, and so on. The action plan reinforced the role of a number of those other federal players.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Seen from the outside, it's as though the action plan was a surplus: $810 million invested in the minorities, and so on. It wasn't clear that that replaced programs that were expiring.

[Hubert Lussier]

Yes, when you mention those figures—I believe we had an exchange on that subject last time—that was essential funding... The major part of the action plan was allocated to education. Certain education budgets expired early in the 2000s, so it wasn't anticipated that they would be renewed. The action plan arrived in the midst of all this, if I can say that, and, in that respect, one could say that filled the envelopes that would have disappeared without the action plan.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That wasn't clear. One could say that wasn't clear. You don't have to agree, but, in my opinion, that wasn't clear.

According to our researcher, since 2003-2004, the annual reports of the Department of Canadian Heritage have not indicated what proportion of the funding made available to community organizations was actually spent during any given fiscal year.

Why do those figures no longer appear in your annual reports?

[Hubert Lussier]

I don't really know what you're referring to, what report you're reading. However, there have been changes in the way the annual report is designed, because the programs changed in 2003. There are now two official languages support programs, whereas I don't know how many there were—six or seven—before that. So that brought about a change. It may be that. Some figures are not exactly reflected in the same way, but I could do a little more digging and provide you with an answer; I'd be pleased to do that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.

This ends our meeting with our two witnesses, whom I thank once again for being here this morning and, of course, for being patient.

As for you, committee members, I inform you that we have six potential witnesses for next Thursday. They are six groups from Newfoundland, Quebec, Ontario, Nova Scotia, British Columbia and the FCFA.

Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Following the testimony that Mr. Lussier gave—I don't know whether it was he or the researcher who talked about this—I'd like to obtain a document showing all the amounts spent by the departments he referred to, including Radio-Canada, to support the communities or what is used to support the minority language communities. We've talked about that two or three times already. Some say they take advantage of personal funding, and there are others. I'd like to have an overview; it's difficult to get an overview. I don't know whether I have to put the question to the analyst or to Mr. Lussier. I know that I've already spoken about this matter with Mr. Lussier, particularly as regards Radio-Canada, which serves minority populations. I'd like to know the value of all those services provided by the federal government to all 10 provinces and three territories.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I'll ask an analyst to answer your question, Mr. Petit.

[Elise Hurtubise-Laranger, Committee Researcher]

We have some economists in the research service, and I think that might be an appropriate question for a person who has a background in economics, who could study all the figures. Is that what you're asking?