Official Languages Committee on May 29th, 2008

[LGen Marc Dumais]

As regards the military staff at the coordination centre—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'm talking about the boat.

[LGen Marc Dumais]

I can't talk about the boat.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So let's talk about the centre and about the people I name, like the chief of search operations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Please answer very briefly, sir.

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

[LGen Marc Dumais]

There are seven duty officer positions, and five of those seven positions are occupied by persons with a functional bilingual linguistic profile.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They have level BBB.

[LGen Marc Dumais]

No, they have levels EBB and EEE.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right. Thank you very much.

We have the possibility of doing a third round. I can allocate three to four minutes to each political party. Let's start it right away.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I'm going to make a very brief comment before handing over to Mr. Coderre.

It looks like the entire human aspect is being lost in all this, and I deplore that. People are becoming mere figures and statistics. You're wondering whether there are enough people to warrant hiring bilingual individuals. If so, they may have a B or BB level, or whatever. The whole human aspect and the importance of communicating in a situation of crisis or distress are being left to one side. I wanted to say that because I find it utterly deplorable. I hope these decisions aren't being made just to cut costs.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Da Pont, when people are in a situation of stress, have you noticed that they return to their mother tongue? You speak good French, but you've spoken mainly in English. You speak both languages, and that's entirely to your credit.

I put myself in the shoes of the families and especially of the fishermen. Let's get this clear: it's not just the matter of L'Acadien II that's at issue here. I wonder why they stopped the search and abandoned L'Acadien II. I'd also like to know why they stopped diving, when the diver wanted to continue. Ms. d'Auray talked about the divers; we could talk about them a little more, but I promised that we would discuss the official languages component.

Some fishermen say they have to link up at sea with the third, fourth and fifth boats. They can't speak English. It's not a sin; Canada has two official languages. You are a federal institution and you have to offer services in both languages. The question doesn't just concern the operations centre. Unfortunately for us, every time we receive a report from the Commissioner of Official Languages, the worst two departments in that respect are Fisheries and Oceans Canada and National Defence. Ms. d'Auray is more sensitive to the francophone issue. I know her; she will definitely be working on that.

You can't tell me that all the Coast Guard operators covering all shifts are bilingual. The fishermen definitely won't go and see you because they have to work with you every day. I understand them. Our work as members is also to ask questions in order to help in helping them. Don't try to make me believe that all the operators are bilingual, Mr. Da Pont. That's more than a story. We have too many examples showing the contrary.

What are you going to do, apart from calling Quebec City? When I am at sea in the Halifax or Cape Breton regions and I ask someone from Quebec City a question, that person doesn't know what's happening there. The staff in Quebec City isn't as concerned and doesn't have the same information to answer my question.

What are you going to do to change the situation and put on a more human face? I'm also very concerned about the transcript of the conversation. I understand why Ms. Aucoin was devastated.

How are we going to ensure that, instead of calling Quebec City, staff... We can't simply say that Quebec is French and the rest of Canada is English. What are we going to do to make you really comply with the Official Languages Act?

[George Da Pont]

First of all, I would say you've asked obviously a number of different questions. I do want to say for the record that I personally and the coast guard are deeply committed to providing services in both official languages. We do take those obligations very seriously. We have made efforts to ensure that this is the case.

I did not say that every operator is bilingual. I did say they were bilingual in nine of our 22 centres. I think the issue you're raising is an issue of whether the B level is sufficient, and I think that is a legitimate question. What I would say is that we have examined that on a number of occasions in the past, working with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages. We've done audits, we've done reviews--

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Da Pont, when a person is at sea and in distress, do you tell them not to worry because your bilingualism level is B? Tell me frankly.

[George Da Pont]

For the third time, I'm telling you that I entirely agree with you. The communication with Ms. Aucoin wasn't coherent.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I'm not talking about Ms. Aucoin, but about the fishermen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Coderre, we're going to let Mr. Da Pont answer your question.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

I'm talking about the whole thing.

[George Da Pont]

This is the first time I've heard that fishermen have to call other boats three or four times.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Da Pont.

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chairman, guests.

I find what we heard this morning horrible. This tragedy had already occurred many hours before Ms. Aucoin communicated with the Canadian authorities responsible.

We can't even talk about your qualifications, but the French that was used with Ms. Aucoin was of poor quality; it was mumbling. In a crisis, please show some empathy; step out of your role as commissioner. You're a father, let's suppose your son or daughter was in a state of stress. You would like people to be able to answer you coherently when you are in a state of profound sadness.

It's not a B level that's required, but rather a C level, so that the people on the front line can respond adequately.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Nadeau, pardon me for interrupting you, but I've just been informed that there is going to be a vote in the House in 25 minutes. I need unanimous consent to continue the meeting. If I get it, we will continue. I would ask you to finish your question.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, all right.

You also have to consider assistance and support. The idea isn't simply to say that the information has been transmitted and then move on to the next call. You also have to offer people assistance and support, have the information to hand, so that you don't leave them waiting. That makes no sense.

I was a teacher. When a student had been forgotten, when he wasn't put on the bus, you can be sure that the information given to the parents was quite a bit more concise and that numerous efforts were made to reassure them. In this case, we're talking about the probable death of a person, about searches, and so on. The French is of poor quality. A C level has to be required.

If I'm not mistaken, you said in the Public Accounts Committee that 22 centres were bilingual. However, I've now learned that nine are. They have to be able to respond to all citizens across the land in both official languages. I hope that's clear. I won't even ask you for your opinion on that. I suggest you go and see your officers responsible. We will do our job and ensure that the quality of service in these kinds of situations is improved. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

[George Da Pont]

I would just like to make two points, if I could.

I've apologized for and I regret, as I've said on a number of occasions, the way the communications were handled with Madame Aucoin. I would not disagree with the points you made. That is why, once we became cognizant of that, we sent someone to ÎIes-de-la-Madeleine to become the primary point of contact to provide, in a compassionate and sensitive fashion, all of the information that you have indicated.

I agree completely with you that's what people deserve, and I regret very much the way this particular incident unfolded in that situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That completes our meeting this morning. I would like to thank our witnesses, Mr. Da Pont, Ms. d'Auray and Mr. Dumais, for making themselves available and for their dignity in the circumstances. Thank you.

The meeting is adjourned.