Official Languages Committee on Dec. 6th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We'll continue the meeting in public.

We would like to thank you for being with us this morning to welcome

Major-General Walter Semianiw, Chief of Military Personnel, National Defence, and Major-General Daniel Gosselin, Commander of the Canadian Defence Academy.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. We apologize for this slight delay.

Without further ado, we hand the floor over to you. You'll begin with a presentation of approximately 10 minutes, then there will be a period of questions asked by parliamentarians.

[Major-General Walter Semianiw, Major General, Chief Military Personnel, Department of National Defence]

Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Chair and members of the standing committee, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for inviting both General Gosselin and me here today.

As you've heard, I am the chief of military personnel and the champion for official languages for the Canadian Forces.

Today, as I said, I'm accompanied by Major-General Daniel Gosselin, Commander of the Canadian Defence Academy, who reports to me. He is also responsible for CFB Borden.

I would like to first address some strategic issues, then I will ask Major General Gosselin to speak to the Borden situation.

Unlike other federal departments, National Defence is a hybrid of two institutions, the Canadian Forces and the Department of National Defence.

At National Defence, we decided that, to do things right and to comply with the Official Languages Act more fully, we had to make better use of our skills in the other official language and, as a result, to facilitate the establishment of an environment conducive to the use of both official languages. We must also be able to do that while performing our everyday duties, in particular leadership, the provision of services and instruction.

To achieve such results we had to define a new vision that could bring about a significant change in the way we lead, train, administer, and support our members of both official language groups. That vision and its approach are described in the National Defence official languages program transformation model 2007 to 2012. The work started as planned on April 1 of this year.

The transformation model is intended to address the shortcomings that we have marked in our official languages performance. Indeed, these shortcomings have led the Canadian Forces to move away from a positional to a functional approach for official languages purposes.

The goal of the transformation model is to ensure that National Defence personnel are led, trained, administered, and supported in their official language of choice. This focus positions the department and the Canadian Forces to more effectively support domestic and foreign operations, while better meeting their legal official language obligations. It also sets out a practical vision of an integrated military and civilian official languages program.

The transformation model has three aims.

First, to ensure that National Defence's linguistically qualified military and civilian personnel are assigned to the right place at the right time in order to provide effective support for Canadian Forces operations and to comply with the Official Languages Act.

Second, to establish an enhanced Official Languages Act awareness and education program that ensures that civilian and Canadian Forces personnel are fully cognizant of their linguistic rights and obligations.

Third, to establish a performance measurement system that will make it possible to accurately evaluate the ability of National Defence military and civilian personnel to provide, in a coherent and standard manner, leadership, instruction and bilingual services when and where provided for under the Official Languages Act.

The implementation of the functional approach is pivotal to the successful realization of the transformation model. Allow me to explain. Military personnel do not “fill” positions, as sailors, soldiers, and air force personnel are liable to move away from their home, overseas and at home in operations, to serve anywhere at any time and to pay the ultimate sacrifice. They are rotated through various tasks within units to which they are assigned to meet specific and often changing training and operational requirements. This makes for a very mobile and dynamic force manned by very busy people.

Because personnel are often away from home, they do not and cannot, like others, secure a regular presence at any one post. So you can see why the public service positional approach for ensuring bilingual capacity--that is, filling static positions with linguistically qualified incumbents who usually remain in one position until they choose to move to another--cannot work for the Canadian Forces.

That does not mean that the Canadian Forces are not taking any measures to guarantee competency in both official languages, as required by the Official Languages Act. They are doing so, and have been for many years now. They transfer bilingual personnel in order to guarantee that bilingual services and functions are ensured when and where necessary.

This approach is in fact that the National Defence Act requires unit commanding officers to employ their resources, including their personnel, to the best of their ability to perform the missions assigned to them. In the military, the functional approach alone can ensure that personnel are led, trained, administered, and supported in their official language of choice. But first, we must ensure that our work environments themselves are in compliance with the Official Languages Act. To that end, the language of work of every unit of the Canadian Forces is accurately identified as bilingual, English, or French. We then identify what functions need to be conducted in both official languages and in what unit.

The transformation model is an optimistic plan for solving the problems it is important to solve. It is a plan that may last five years. We cannot solve all the problems at the same time.

I believe we're on the right track, however. With the profound and fundamental changes we've undertaken under the transformation model, I must say that the situation today, despite some anomalies, is much different from what it was a few years ago. We have and will continue to make progress.

At this time I'd like to give Major General Gosselin the opportunity to address the members of this committee on the situation at Canadian Forces Base Borden. There are many reasons why the situation in Borden was not addressed in a timely manner. In the end, I make no excuses in front of this committee as to why the situation was not addressed; it should have been. For that, I accept the full responsibility as the current chief of military personnel. Nevertheless, I know full well that the plans that are in place right now will see us realize what we need to do to ensure that the Canadian Forces has the leadership and is compliant with the Official Languages Act.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Gosselin, it's your turn; you have three minutes left.

[Major-General Daniel Gosselin, Major General, Canadian Defence Academy, Department of National Defence]

Mr. Chairman, members of the Standing Committee, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for this opportunity to update you this morning on the situation at the CFB Borden with regard to instruction and services in French.

As was stated, I've commanded the Canadian Defence Academy since July of this summer. That includes, in this capacity, the Royal Military College of Canada in Kingston, the Canadian Forces College in Toronto, Canadian Forces Base Borden, and a number of schools throughout the Canadian Forces.

Allow me to mention, first of all, that I welcome the involvement of the Canadian Forces' ombudsman in this case, since it is in our common interest to improve the services provided to Canadian Forces personnel training and on duty at Borden. So we're taking these findings seriously. A force that promotes the vitality of its linguistic groups and an understanding of diversity is a more seasoned force that has more resources.

We fully appreciate, as well, that for the recruits this initial period of training will influence how they view the Canadian Forces as an institution. We also recognize their rights to have the instruction and services in the language of their choice. We are working very hard to address the issues raised by the ombudsman.

Let me briefly outline some of those, and I can expand on any in the question period, if you are interested.

In August of this year, the commander of CFC Borden proclaimed the Canadian Forces Base Borden Official Languages Strategic Plan for 2007 to 2010. The plan also states the resources required for its implementation. I am working with General Semianiw to ensure that the highest priority is given to the necessary resources for the plan's implementation. We have a few initiatives, in particular the selection of a senior officer as official languages champion for CFB Borden, the introduction of an awareness campaign including articles in newspapers, postal missions and improvements to our Borden Web site.

We also hosted a open house style activity in October, receiving more than 25 organizations from the regional Francophone community. I personally visited CFB Borden on two occasions. I met with the base's officers and senior non-commissioned officers in order to emphasize the importance of the Canadian Forces' Base Borden Official Languages Strategic Plan. I also met with more than 300 Francophone recruits to discuss their concerns. Last month, I visited the base again and held information sessions with personnel and a number of students taking courses in French. I also sent two teams from my staff to assist the base commander.

In order to maintain this momentum, we've also begun implementing a number of initiatives to ensure that the provision of training, education, and services continues to improve, especially for francophone recruits. We are providing all new staff and students arriving at CFB Borden with information on their linguistic rights and responsibilities and we are seeking their feedback when they leave the base. We are enhancing our cadre of linguistically qualified instructors, educators, and service providers. We have invested additional resources to translate course material into French. We have begun working with civilian education and training providers to improve our instructional and support capability, and we are continuing to enhance education awareness on official languages.

To sum up, we recognize the need to protect the rights of all members of the Canadian Forces. The ombudsman has identified deficiencies at CFB Borden, and will correct them vigorously and energetically.

Significant progress has been achieved since his visit. However, despite the initiatives and additional resources invested, a sustained effort over a number of years appears to be required in order to improve the official languages situation at Borden to a satisfactory level. We nevertheless remain committed to building on recent progress in order to achieve that goal.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, gentlemen.

Now we will proceed with the first round. In view of the time allotted to us, the first round will be one of five minutes and the second three minutes.

Without further ado, I hand over to Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, sir, for being here with your team. I listened to your presentation and I thought there was a lot of positive attitude. You seem very positive.

General Gosselin, you just mentioned the word “momentum”, as though things were headed in the right direction. And yet one would say that nothing is changing. In general, one would say that official languages, not only at Borden, but in the Forces as a whole, are a necessary evil, that is to say that, in some way, you are stuck with it and sometimes you don't really know what to do with it.

In this case, I don't get the impression things have improved much. The ombudsman or his team conducted follow-up in June, I believe, and it seems to me that the situation has not improved either.

Can you tell my why we get the impression that, despite your good will, not much is changing?

[MGen Walter Semianiw]

Yes, Mr. Rodriguez.

In February, the Borden commander prepared an action plan for the base, but it was sent to headquarters here in Ottawa. Despite the fact that the plan was there, it wasn't until July and October that General Gosselin and I decided to implement it. However, there was an action plan, and it's now that we're seeing the details. The plan was there. I'm talking here today about things to come, not about things from the past.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I understand, but sometimes you have to dwell on the past because sometimes the past is indicative of the future.

I don't doubt your good faith. I'm sure you want things to change, but this is a big machine. Sometimes—I'll say it again—one would say it's a necessary evil.

Are Francophones aware of the situation before they arrive? According to the testimony, one would say that Francophone recruits arrive on the base and are completely surprised, because they thought they were entering an environment where they could work or learn in their language. But they realize that they receive orders in English only, that they don't have any textbooks in their language, etc.

Is there anything that prepares Francophones for that?

[MGen Daniel Gosselin]

The first question you asked—I think I can also answer the second—is that a lot of things have been done. Perhaps I didn't run down the entire list, but we've invested additional amounts, nearly $1 million, to translate courses; we've recruited additional bilingual personnel specifically to assist recruits, because we know that, as you say, they are the most vulnerable individuals.

So now, from the moment they arrive on the base, we make sure they are briefed on their rights. They are aware of the person they can speak to if they have any complaints to make, there is a working system for handling those complaints, and all courses for recruits are offered in French.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You've recruited additional personnel? When did you hire those individuals?

[MGen Daniel Gosselin]

In fact, that started in August, September, and we continued. In some cases, it's still continuing. For example, we're trying to recruit an additional bilingual, Francophone dental hygienist. The process is underway. We're having trouble finding medical personnel.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Isn't that a little late, considering what has happened and comments that were made. I read that it was an urgent matter for the ombudsman. Isn't this a little late?

Ultimately—and this isn't aimed at you personally—hasn't the Forces' reaction been precisely to the fact that they had their hands slapped and that there's nothing spontaneous or voluntary in this. Do you understand?

[MGen Daniel Gosselin]

I'm going to answer only the part that concerns me.

In my case, and even before I arrived, people had a plan for moving forward. A plan had been developed stating the required resources, the required additional personnel and so on. As you can understand, in our organization, sometimes it takes time before you can get resources, award contracts, recruit personnel. It's not done from one day to the next.

We can do it more quickly for certain activities. For example, we managed to get a contract with the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires to increase our bilingual capability in some of the activities that we offer. That took some time. We had to establish contracts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, General Gosselin.

We'll now go to Richard Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, General Gosselin and General Semianiw.

[MGen Walter Semianiw]

It is pronounced Sem-ee-an-off.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So it's Ukrainian?

[MGen Walter Semianiw]

No, I come from Thetford Mines.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

But is your family name Ukrainian? So much the better for Thetford Mines.

[MGen Walter Semianiw]

No, but that's a good question because my father arrived here in Canada—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I have 10 minutes; thank you very much. You got me there. I simply wanted to know the origin of your name and to be nice in my introduction.

We met Mr. O'Connor, who was Minister of National Defence at the time, and we heard about the plan and so on. I would like to help find some solutions to this problem.

In 1867, it was the Dominion of Canada. The Canadian Armed Forces did not really take shape until World War I. We know the history. I find it unfortunate to see the position that French Canadians and Acadians, as they were called at the time, occupied in the Canadian Forces. Today they're referred to as Quebeckers and minority Francophones, even though Quebeckers form the majority in their province. However, it appears that their position in the Canadian Forces is something second class and of little interest: official languages in a nutshell.

When Mr. Côté came here, I wasn't here. I wasn't the Bloc Québécois representative at that time; I wasn't available. I read the transcript and minutes of the meeting, as well as the articles. They state that everything is in English and that managers aren't aware enough of this issue. They also say there is a lack of training manuals and that the quality of the instructors' French is very poor. They even tell people to choose another course, when documents aren't available in French for a given occupation.

Trivial things become complicated as a result of poor knowledge of the language. The quality of life of people whose first language is French or who do not speak English as a second language becomes complicated. You say there's a plan now. I'm willing to believe that, but the situation has existed for such a long time that it's becoming difficult.

My father was a Franco-Ontarian. When he left Hawkesbury, Ontario, to join the Canadian Armed Forces during World War II, he was sent to Cornwall. Since he had trouble understanding English, they said he was a slow learner. They sent him to Petawawa, which didn't improve matters. Lastly, he wound up in Quebec City, at Valcartier, where he became a sergeant, instructor and so on. The same thing happened to his two brothers, Georges and Maurice, who are my uncles.

It's very insulting for someone to read on the soldier's transcript that he's a slow learner. The slow ones are the Canadian Armed Forces. I don't understand why the situation is still the same in 2007 or why you're telling me today that there is a plan. In fact, the situation has regressed, and that's utterly unacceptable.

As parliamentarians, we need documents, and we need access to the translations of those documents. How is it that you can't even translate training manuals? That's incomprehensible. You tell me that the introduction of services is limited by available funding. As far as I know, these are the “Canadian” Armed Forces, and they represent two nations, Quebec and Canada, which together form a single body that goes into combat. They should have these instruments.

You say that, on the base, Mr. Bouchard is a resource for soldiers who are having trouble. I hope that's not the solution and that it's only to provide help.

How can you guarantee me that you can find a quick solution to problems that seem systemic and correct the obvious lack of will that has existed since the inception of the Canadian Armed Forces and that still persists in 2007?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

General Semianiw or General Gosselin, after that long preamble, you will have to answer briefly because you have one minute left.

[MGen Walter Semianiw]

Indeed, that question deals with a number of aspects, Mr. Chairman.

First, as a result of all those aspects, there is a new plan. I'm sure that the plan will succeed and that I will be back here in eight months to provide you with details on the plan's success. As a result of the situation at Borden, Saint-Jean and elsewhere, the former minister decided to implement a new plan. I know the details of that plan, and I'm convinced it will succeed.

In my opinion, Borden is the base I must focus on. Then we'll see what's going on at Saint-Jean, at Gagetown, not only for Francophones, but for Anglophones as well. So we'll start with Borden, then it will be Saint-Jean, which is also the responsibility of Major-General Gosselin, who is studying the situation as well. We have a plan, and I'm sure it will succeed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, General Semianiw.

Mr. Godin.