Official Languages Committee on April 23rd, 2009

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I tried to provide an overall impression of the situation. How did we get to this point? There seems to be a problem of recruitment on Parliament Hill, on both the anglophone and francophone side.

[David Brennick]

I do not know. I am awaiting the answer of Ms. Faitelson-Weiser.

[Silvia Faitelson-Weiser]

Thank you. I'm not sure if I understood, but it is not a language problem. I will try to answer.

You gave many details on how things work in Quebec. You said that you were part of the first generation of CEGEP graduates. That goes back to the 1970s, and things have changed significantly since then.

In my opinion, there are far fewer unilingual francophone professionals in Quebec, than unilingual anglophone professionals in the rest of Canada. Why? It is a matter of necessity. It is much more vital for francophones to learn English than it is for anglophones to learn French. I don't believe that there are 40 different explanations to that. Unless we succeed at convincing anglophones in the rest of Canada that French is necessary, they will not learn French. It is as simple as that. French is not a language that they absolutely need. After sixth grade, French is forgotten. Throughout life, one learns things when one is motivated to do so. Learning poetry is absolutely useless, except for those who feel the need to learn poetry. Therefore, people must feel the need to learn French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Faitelson-Weiser and Mr. Petit.

We will now go on to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Faitelson-Weiser, what you have been saying corroborates the fact that Canada is a country where francophones are assimilated at a staggering rate as soon as one moves away from Quebec or areas bordering on Quebec. One has only to consider the Franco-Ontarians, the Brayons (the inhabitants of the Madawaska Valley), and the Acadians. Paradoxically, in Western Canada, there are more anglophones learning French than they are young francophones—that is to say, young people whose mother tongue is French—who have the opportunity to learn their own language. For example, throughout Saskatchewan there are eight schools where French is the first language. In a province the size of Algeria, some people do not even have the opportunity to study in their own language, in French. In our country, section 16 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms specifies that French and English are the two official languages. This is a just a put-on; this is not the way things really are. Because I come from Ontario, and because I lived in Saskatchewan for a long time, I became the best sovereignist in the world. The goal is to ensure the existence of a country in North America where we can ensure that the French fact lives on.

Hats off to Mr. Brennick and his organization for the work that they do. From what I gather, Canadian Parents for French is responsible for some of the progress that has been made. I would like to see a 100 per cent improvement, of course, but for the time being, we must encourage the parents of children whose mother tongue is French to register their children in schools where French is the first language.

I am going to ask Mr. Brennick my next question, then I will move on to Ms. Faitelson-Weiser.

Wouldn't you agree that all these efforts to produce bilingual university graduates who can speak English and French well and who are functional enough to join the federal public service should start with the school boards and the education ministries, rather than at the university level?

[David Brennick]

I myself would say that this is everyone's responsibility. Some people within the public education system think that we can do it all. We are involved in the initial stages of development, that is to say we sow the seeds. Yes, this is where it all begins, but we encourage people, we provide the foundation, so to speak. Certainly, people themselves must also accept their share of responsibility.

Earlier, we were talking about standards, and this issue must be very clear. We mentioned the Common European Framework because at the beginning of our late immersion program, we used to issue a certificate with the word “bilingual” on it. Some students went to possible employers and said to them,

“I'm bilingual. Look, this is what it says.”

But they weren't truly bilingual. We changed the certificate and now it clearly states the person is a graduate of a late immersion program.

Let's talk about the Common European Framework. It shifts the responsibility onto the shoulders of the young people: They say that they want to have a B level of proficiency. What does having a B level mean?

The purpose of this framework is to allow you, as an employer, to know what you can require of a person who has a B level of proficiency. It's better this way, rather than having each person give his own interpretation of what it means. This is an example of what we mean when we talk about standards.

And what about the guidance counsellors in the schools? One of their responsibilities is to share employment information with the students and to let them know what will be available in the future on the job market. Who is requiring knowledge of our languages? Where is the demand? In the final analysis, we all share this responsibility.

[Silvia Faitelson-Weiser]

I agree. It's far more general than that. There is an old principle in the world of psycholinguistics that still seems to hold true. People tend to learn what they think is the more prestigious language, which can change. Unless everyone within Canadian society, encouraged not by legislation but rather by government, feels that French is a prestigious language, on par with English...

This is not a problem at the level of elementary schools, high schools or universities. The question is whether society wishes to perhaps set itself apart from other societies in North America because it is bilingual. American society may become bilingual too one day, but for the time being, American society is unilingual English, and Mexican society in turn is a Spanish-speaking unilingual society.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We have finished the three rounds. Would any other committee member perhaps wish to...

Mr. Chong sponsored this study.

Mr. Chong, if you would like to say something, go ahead.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question for the Canadian Parents for French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Excuse me, Mr. Chong.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I wasn't prepared for a question earlier, but I do have one now. But that is okay, let Michael go first.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Fine.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Mine is very fast and easy.

First of all, I have to say I am not a regular member on this committee, but I am certainly happy to be here today, coming from New Brunswick, our only legally bilingual province in Canada. Secondly, prior to being an MP, I was a teacher and taught at a French immersion school. So I do have quite an interest in this topic and I am happy to be here today.

I was interested in the program that Mr. Brennick teaches at the university. You mentioned that, and I was interested in what more it does and how it works.

I've lost track with Nova Scotia. I am wondering if you have early French immersion there as well.

[David Brennick]

The range of offerings in French second language across the country is varied. So in our province of Nova Scotia we have early immersion, middle immersion, and late immersion, integrated French, core French. So we have the variety.

My own experience where I work is late immersion. We made that decision.

With respect to St. Francis Xavier University, what they did was parallel one they had in existence. It's a master's of education in resource. It is for the formation of resource teachers to work in schools with students with learning disabilities.

This one is taught in French. There are a number of us who teach different pieces. There is a cohort of eighteen. Nine, I believe, come from the Halifax Regional School Board, where they have early immersion.

So these are teachers who will end up in schools providing support to students who may experience.... That supports what we know from the work that all children can achieve success, if they have the support. Some children need more support than others.

We are very pleased about that in Nova Scotia. We are very happy with that. In fact, there is a second cohort starting in January.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I find it very interesting, of course, and I'm glad to have heard about it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Chong.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a short comment and question for Canadian Parents for French.

There are as many Canadians now with a non-official language as their mother tongue as there are francophones living in this country. I think the rapidly changing demographic makeup of this country is something that a lot of people aren't aware of in Ottawa. For example, Chinese is taught as the first language in three of the larger provinces in this country, in Ontario, Alberta, and British Columbia.

More worrisome, I think, is that the number of bilingual anglophones aged 15 to 19 has declined precipitously in the last decade, according to Statistics Canada, from about 16% in 1996 to 13% in 2006. These are very disappointing numbers, especially considering that we've had an action plan on official languages, launched by the previous government and continued by the present government, that has poured billions of dollars into trying to raise the profile of both languages, but especially French, in Canada.

My question to you is why are these numbers in decline, specifically the numbers for bilingual anglophones coming out of our education system? Why did the action plan, launched in 2003, not go anywhere in achieving its objective of doubling the number of bilingual students aged 15 to 19?

[David Brennick]

You ask good and difficult questions.

I would like to seat that in a larger context and say that learning is a lifelong activity, and that to expect immediate results would be premature, I think, and would not do service to the intent.

There are a couple of things. One is that you're correct in terms of the changing demographic of our country. We spoke earlier about the allophones and the changing demographic. What we know is that there is tremendous interest in French as a second language on the part of some our non-francophone non-anglophone communities, about which we are very encouraged. We know that is the case in lower mainland B.C., in Toronto, and in some of our larger centres.

Earlier we touched on a piece about the calls on the time and the interest of young people, and we find there are lots of distractions. I think that's in part a response to that. The other piece is the fact--I don't know where it is in the rest of the country, but I know it is so where I live--that we deal with declining enrollment. Whenever we look at the numbers of students, where we are today is not where we were ten years ago. I don't know if it's increasing everywhere, but I think we need to reflect that in terms of....

We are a group of volunteers. I think we need to not forget that. We're people who value and are supportive of opportunities for young Canadians to learn French as a second language, and in many different ways. That is why our involvement is oftentimes with school systems, but oftentimes in providing opportunities outside of schools, such as summer camps, which I mentioned earlier, or agreements we have with universities, with the French embassy.

At the end of the day, the take-up on this is going to be on the part of individuals and families. Ours is one of trying to encourage and say that it's great in our country, given our history, given the universality of having French in the world, and that it's a logical choice for us. We have banded around that wagon and theme. We enjoy the support. We also want to make others aware of the fact that there are many ways to achieve functional bilingualism. We have many hybrids in Canada. We're very proud of our stature worldwide, and we continue to do that.

We know there is a drop. In school systems sometimes, for example, we talk about the drop in social studies programs. We talk about the drop in some other programs that are offered, because people are drawn to math and science. So we ask: what is a balanced education?

It was mentioned earlier about acquiring French before leaving university. There was a time when the educated person, sort of a renaissance person, I suppose, would be one who did have a second language at graduation. But that has changed. What we're trying to do is to stop the tide of devaluing and rather show that there are great and wonderful personal experiences and enrichments developmentally, along with some practical ones in terms of job-related, functional, tangible reasons for one to have a second language.

We stand in front of French as a second language, but we are very supportive within that larger context of a second language.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Chong, and thank you, Mr. Brennick. You could no better conclude this session.

I want to thank you again, Madame Weiser, for your statement and your comments. I would also like to point out you were the first one to raise the importance of promoting bilingualism among the allophones, which is a point that will be taken in care as well as all your recommendations.

I just want to thank you on behalf of the committee, because I was striving for a few things on this study, and I think your testimony this morning has been very helpful.

Thank you again.

We will see one another again at the next committee meeting. Thank you very much.

The meeting stands adjourned.