Official Languages Committee on May 14th, 2009

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Sylvain discussed this in front of the Senate Committee, saying that the important thing for us is that there be separate English and French programming as part of our coverage. CBC/Radio-Canada has always done that, because Francophone and Anglophone viewers are not interested in the same athletes.

Also, it would have to be CBC/Radio-Canada programming. We also wanted to be given assurances about a number of other things as part of the arrangement. We were even prepared to work with someone else. In the current context, however, we cannot afford to incur additional costs; therefore, adequate financial compensation has to be provided.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

Also, I would like to explain what would happen to our programming if we accepted the offers that are on the table. The arithmetic is rather strange. We are being asked to exclude Quebec. There are one million Francophones outside Quebec. They have access to all of Radio-Canada's programming, including all the very popular series, such as Providence, Tout sur moi, Les Parent, Tout le monde en parle and the Radio-Canada newscasts. All of that is broadcast to Francophones throughout the country. They are telling us that one million Francophones, who now have access to this programming will have to go without because 12,000 people don't have either cable or satellite. If we were to conduct a survey and ask all the Francophones outside Quebec if they prefer to no longer have access to the programs available through public broadcasters, because 12,000 people don't have access to TQS on cable or satellite… That calculation makes absolutely no sense.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I understand. It would be a headache for you. The people who won will also have to figure it out on their own.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Rodriguez, when you read all these comments about CTV… It is difficult to negotiate with CTV because CTV does not need us. Its representatives told you that they cover all of Canada and that--

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

No, they did not say they covered all of Canada.

Should Olympic coverage in both official languages not be a pre-condition to securing the contract? I image your answer will be yes, since you are--

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

It is.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

But, if you are unable to reach 5, 6, 8 or 10 per cent of households in both official languages, there is a problem. Are you saying that the winner cannot meet those conditions?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

I would just like to add that, in addition to Francophones outside Quebec, there are also Anglophones in Quebec who have neither cable nor satellite and do not receive certain signals.

Let me give you an example. Bell ExpressVu does not carry the Ottawa signal in the Ottawa region. That means that, even if the Ottawa signal were included, they would not be able to access it via satellite, even though they paid. A lot of Canadians will not have it, for all sorts of technical reasons.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

According to you, it was a condition…

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

It is a condition set out in the contract, Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That means they have to abide by it.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

That is correct.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

However, for the time being, they are unable to do so. So, they are turning to you and asking the losing bidder to help them fulfill their own obligations. Is that right?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

We responded to their request, because we wanted to find a solution. We engaged in discussions with people at CTV and RDS to see what kind of arrangement we could make. That was two years ago, when it was still technically possible to do it. We could be co-producers. We set a number of conditions, which we referred to earlier. If we broadcast something on CBC/Radio-Canada, we want to be sure that broadcast abides by our own standards. We have to be sure that it is “cost-effective”. In this case, we would be broadcasting programming that is not cost-effective, but which jibes with our mandate. On the other hand, we do not generally do that in order to generate profits for a competitor. That would be quite odd: we would be doing this to generate profits for a competitor who outbid us. We would basically be using taxpayers' money to increase their profits.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

May I make a comment?

Mr. Rodriguez, I did not say that CTV was not meeting the conditions. What I am saying is that CTV was well aware of the contract and tender call conditions. I presume the people at CTV convinced the IOC that they would be able to broadcast the Olympics in French and in English equally, by unscrambling the RDS signal and adding the TQS signal. We were not a party to that negotiation. We made the best bid we could with the money at our disposal. We did not interfere in that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rodriguez.

Mr. Nadeau, please.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First, one of the two people representing the CRTC told us that they could cover all of Canada. After that, we were told that they could not cover all of Canada. We pointed out to them that if even 2.5% of the Canadian market is not covered, that is the equivalent of New Brunswick or Saskatchewan. When people say that is fine, because it is still 98%, they are being irresponsible. That essentially means taking away the right of Francophones—in Quebec or elsewhere—to see the Games. I am from Gatineau. We do not have access to the Radio-Canada signal. I am in Gatineau, just on the other side of the river. If people do not have cable, they do not receive Radio-Canada. But it is not as though we are light-years away; we are right next door.

I hope the government intends to respect Canadian federalism. But I am not sure, because it is not showing us that it will in this case. I hope it will ensure that all Canadians, Quebeckers, Acadians, French-speakers in the North and others in remote areas, in every province, have access to Olympic television coverage in French, wherever they live, whether they happen to be at home or visiting someone else. We will see what its real commitment is in that respect.

If CTV or the consortium are able to look beyond their profits and show some respect for Canadian taxpayers, our Olympians and the athletes in Vancouver, if they are anxious for everyone to see the Games and if they agree to make a deal with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, will you have time to set everything up and ensure that coverage is excellent? I would not like to see something just cobbled together, with people being left out.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

The answer is yes, but only on certain conditions. Let me outline some of the requirements I was told about yesterday on the phone with respect to Tuesday's offer. CBC/Radio-Canada would have to set aside its entire commercial inventory and forego all its revenue. It would not be entitled to any form of accreditation on the Vancouver site. Radio-Canada could only broadcast outside of Quebec, and that generally includes the Greater Ottawa area. Radio-Canada could not shoot on site, because they have paid for the rights at the Olympic site. We would have to defray all the costs. We would also have to carry their advertising in its entirety. If we cannot be on the site and are not allowed to do anything, we cannot provide coverage of the Games.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

If the government has any respect for Canadians and Quebeckers—and we will see that soon enough, since the Olympics are not that far off—would you be in a position to provide the service?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

If the consortium gives us access to the site, and a business plan is put in place that makes sense and reflects the conditions set previously, the answer would be that time is of the essence. As a general rule, it takes two years to plan coverage of the Olympic Games, and there is the whole matter of preparation.

Having said that, I want to make one very important point. CBC/Radio-Canada will have a very strong presence in Vancouver, in any case, because it is the public broadcaster and what happens in Vancouver next winter will be huge. We have lined up a whole range of programming, within the limits of what we are able to do, given that we do not own the rights. On radio, for example, you can actually do a lot of things without owning the rights, because you don't have to buy pictures. So, we will be carrying all the results from Vancouver on radio. We will also be providing significant daily television coverage from Vancouver, with programs that discuss the cultural life and everything associated with the Games. We will broadcast any pictures we are entitled to carry, and there will be some interviews. There are certain things we are entitled to do.

So, in any case, we will have a very strong presence in Vancouver. It will be a Vancouver winter—there is no doubt about that. Of course, we cannot carry the competitions; that's the reason you buy the rights. I understand that this is a problem. However, to answer your question, if we enter into an agreement whereby our employees can be there, and a proper business model can be negotiated by the two corporations, it would likely be possible, because we have the necessary sports crews and skills and a lot of people who could organize quickly to provide Olympic coverage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Mr. Godin, please.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to thank our witnesses, Mr. Lacroix and Mr. Lafrance, for appearing today on behalf of CBC/Radio-Canada.

To be perfectly frank, I hardly know where to begin. You are concerned about the fact that there will be no television coverage in Quebec! I am proud to hear you say that. I don't often hear you say that you are concerned about no television coverage in the rest of Canada. You know my views; I have made them known in recent weeks. It is still making the headlines in the rest of Canada. I see that you are looking out for Quebec's interests and that this is a concern for you. Congratulations!

Mr. Lacroix, you made one comment earlier that interested me. You said, if I understood you correctly, that under the legislation, coverage of the Games must be available in both official languages.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

I did not refer to legislation; I talked about our specific mandate.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I see.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Our mandate is to develop and deliver similar programming to Anglophones and Francophones. In the tender call we responded to, Mr. Godin, the conditions were clear: you had to meet the objectives set out by the IOC, which involved delivering coverage of the Olympic Games in Canada, in French and English.