Official Languages Committee on May 14th, 2009

[Sylvain Lafrance]

As regards what would happen if we were to receive compensation for covering the Games, the problem remains the same. We do not own the rights. If we cannot be there on the ground, if we have no accreditation and if we are not allowed to shoot, we will not be able to do that.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I understand, but if they got over that and came back with something that makes sense--

[Sylvain Lafrance]

They can't afford to get over it, in my opinion. I cannot believe that, after paying $163 million, they would tell us to go ahead and sell advertising and come in with them. They paid for the rights and they want to exercise them. They cannot allow another broadcaster to do that kind of thing. If they did, it would raise huge legal questions.

In order for something to happen, there would really have to be an agreement between CTV executives and ourselves, because they are the ones who legally own the broadcast rights for the Olympic Games.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

To be perfectly frank, I thought it was very clever of the people at CTV to do what they did. They made that suggestion when they appeared before you, and then passed on the information to us afterwards, which influenced the discussions. Rather than discussing CTV's service delivery based on the contractual conditions, CBC/Radio-Canada now suddenly finds itself in the position of having to explain to you why this offer, that we have yet to receive and which was suggested here, would be a problem. The fact is that they have very cleverly—and I have a great deal of respect for the people at CTV—shifted the discussion.

At the same time, we believe it is very important for all Francophones in Canada to have access to Olympic coverage. I simply want to repeat that, even if there is a desire to invite us in as a broadcaster, we have to assume that only CTV is able to do that. We cannot incur costs of any kind, given our current circumstances.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have 20 seconds left, Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I would just like to know—you can give me a yes or a no answer—whether you have received written confirmation that you would receive $60 million per programming category.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

No, we have not yet received that written confirmation. However, the Minister did verbally confirm that to me. Also, I believe the Treasury Board has minutes of that confirmation. It has not yet reached the stage where it is an actual parliamentary vote, but the Treasury Board has approved the amount of $60 million.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We will move on now to Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I want to begin by saying that, here in this Committee, we have to be prepared to tell it like it is. The truth seems to shock the members on the opposite side of the House.

Since you, the Conservatives, took office, you have slashed Radio-Canada's budget, which is really unfortunate, because it is a Crown corporation.

You are a Crown corporation, and you have a presence all across English- and French-speaking Canada. To me, that is extremely important. It is totally illogical to take away Radio-Canada's ability to broadcast its programming in Quebec. That effectively means that 7.5 million television viewers who could watch your programs are unable to do so. That further reduces your television viewing audience.

If CTV has made overtures to you, it is because it needs you. It is clear that they know they will not be able to provide coverage all across the country. Otherwise, they would not continue to try and negotiate with you.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Ms. Guay, I can only remind you why we are still negotiating at this point. The President of the CRTC wrote to Mr. Fecan and myself to express his concern about coverage of the Olympic Games. He asked us to consider reopening the discussions that had been ongoing since 2005. I repeated what I called the Lafrance conditions—in other words, the conditions laid down in 2006. We reiterated them in 2007.

The only reason why there is still correspondence between us is that the President of the CRTC asked us to reconsider. The same thing happened all over again, and you have that correspondence in front of you. You can see for yourselves what Mr. Fecan's ultimate comments were. He said they do not need us, that they are fulfilling the conditions, that they will do the best they can and that they are satisfied that they will do a good job for Francophones.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That is not what we were told. There is contradictory information out there. We were told, up until today, that they would not be in a position to fulfill the terms of their contract—in other words, to provide coverage of the Games all across the country in both official languages.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

In my opinion, it will not be possible for them to fulfill those conditions. In theory, once they have resolved the problem for the 12,000 Francophones outside Quebec, they will still have to find a solution for Anglophones in Quebec who are receiving the CTV signal. That problem has still not been fixed.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

There are also Anglophones in Gaspésie and in Gatineau, for example.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

If people in Gatineau are not using the Bell service, that is not our choice. It would be very difficult to find a system. Even CBC/Radio-Canada's system only reaches 98 or 99% of Canadians. There are always some areas that are very difficult to cover, although we naturally try to do the best we can. I know that CTV has made an effort to extend its reach through agreements with satellite broadcasters.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

They still are not able to provide coverage to 99% of the population.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

That may be.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In any case, that is not what we were told here in this Committee. If that were true, they would not be trying to negotiate with you now. They would go about their business without worrying about anything else. The fact remains that, for our image, not providing that service during the Olympic Games would be appalling. And, it is equally appalling that we are told certain things and that you are not informed. You are on the defensive this morning, but you have no reason to be. These people should have communicated with you before you appeared before the Committee. Then you would have known what to say. In fact, you would have had a chance to prepare an answer. But that did not happen. I am extremely disappointed.

If it turns out that they are unable to meet their objectives, the entire country will be a laughing stock. To not be able to provide coverage to the entire population, when the Olympic Games are taking place in our own country, would make us an object of ridicule. That was just a comment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Guay.

You obviously do not want to be forced to take your signal away from every Francophone outside Quebec and put your regular series and newscasts on hold for two weeks. But, what about the opening and closing ceremonies? My understanding, based on what CTV told us, was that they would be willing to provide financial compensation for revenue losses incurred outside of Quebec and ensure that CBC/Radio-Canada has its own production.

Would that be of interest to you?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

What they told us is that CBC/Radio-Canada would have to develop its own production, but that they would not compensate us for our costs; in other words, we would have to defray all of those costs on our own, without being accredited or having access to the site, and so on. They are asking us to produce television programming with pictures [Inaudible--Editor], from a room in Montreal, and to bear all the costs of that operation. However, we have no desire to produce poor programming for Francophones outside Quebec. That is the issue. If we produce programming for them, we want it to be of the same quality as the programming we deliver all across Quebec. We also want it to be accessible to all Canadians, because that is the very nature of our mandate.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Imagine for one minute how difficult it would be for us to describe an opening ceremony if we are sitting in front of a television set—since we would not have access to the site—in the basement of the CBC/Radio-Canada broadcast centre in Montreal. Imagine what the implications of that would be for Radio-Canada's expertise.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

Also, that coverage has to be available to all Canadians. Cutting off Quebec and Ottawa is really not a great idea. The fact is that this production would be very costly, even though we would be eliminating most of the market.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I want to thank Ms. Guay for letting me use some of her time.

Our next speaker is Mr. Galipeau, and I believe he would also like to share his time.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want you to know how much I appreciate all the efforts you have made over the years. In the past, I have benefited from the coverage you have provided of previous Olympic Games. I am a Francophone and I live in a minority community in Ontario. I receive your radio and television programming, although I must admit that I have watched less television in recent years. However, I listen to the radio all the time. I owe a great deal to Radio-Canada, which allows me to preserve my language.

In the past, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation would come and ask me for my opinion, sometimes as a participant in a focus group, and other times as a commentator on programs dealing with Ontario. However, since I was elected to the House of Commons, it has not been as easy to have that contact. I met with Mr. Rabinovitch. We talked about a number of issues relating to the services you provide to Francophones who form a minority in their region. He strongly encouraged me to get in touch with you. I sent you e-mails and left you phone messages, but they never elicited any response. I find this whole situation rather complicated. I was elected by the people, but I am unable to access the senior management of Radio-Canada, even though I was able to do that when I was an ordinary citizen.

As regards the situation we are dealing with today, I was sitting at this table when representatives of the CRTC and CTV appeared before the Committee. In my opinion, what you are describing today does not reflect the tone of those meetings.

I remember another dispute relating to coverage of hockey games which was resolved through this Committee. I am wondering whether there is any way we could set aside our false pride in order to arrive at a solution that would mean that no one would either lose money or lose face. We would focus on the service to be given Francophones who are part of a minority community.

[Hubert T. Lacroix]

Mr. Galipeau--

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

That also applies to Anglophones who form a minority where they live. I want to thank you for pointing that out to me.