Official Languages Committee on Oct. 6th, 2009

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I simply wanted to point out that we are getting prepared to be less prepared, if I can put it that way. We know that there will be no money available before the middle of the summer, because that has been the tradition and, this year, it has been even worse. It is a good time to lay people off or reduce the number of work hours. Unfortunately, this is not how you go about keeping good employees either. We know that we will not have money for our projects before September or October, at any rate. We're getting used to the idea that this is the way life is.

It creates and fosters a culture of dependence on one department. And if other departments are doing the same thing, it just fosters the wrong culture.

It cuts your entrepreneurial spirit, because you're trying. So I think the impact is way beyond the logistics of paying the bills; it's the strategic planning that any organization like ours, small or big, wants to do in fulfilling the objectives of the Government of Canada on official languages. But we have this small way of doing things only until September, and then in September we have to start preparing for next year.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chairman, in June 2008 the committee adopted the report entitled "The Collaboration Accords between Canadian Heritage and the Community Organization—an evolving partnership". This report already contained some recommendations covering the sensitive aspects of the situation, namely that Canadian Heritage must provide the funding when announced, and that if there were any delays in sending the funding, it would be up to the department to pay the interest. Here I refer to recommendation numbers 6 and 7. With respect to recommendation number 4, it was designed to reduce the accountability measures so as not to impede the ability of organizations to carry out their mandate. However, we can see that this is not yet the case, which is extremely disappointing.

If the process were made easier, if it were not the minister who had to sign off on all of the agreements for minority francophone and anglophone organizations, would that help resolve the problem?

[Robert Donnelly]

That would be the minimum required, because that is the primary reason why there are delays.

Heather talked about a line of credit. Some organizations do have one, but they are in the minority. In summer, we visit the bank in order to obtain a line of credit—and for the time being, we are not talking about interest charges. The bank tells us that our organization has been around for 10 years and receives funding every year, and that even if we had a few problems with our cheques, the bank can give us a line of credit providing that we provide it with a letter confirming our funding for the forthcoming year. We then ask the bank when it needs this letter and we are told that it is required before we can be given a line of credit.

The letter confirming the funding must be approved by the minister, which takes several months. A year goes by, and the following year, the exercise starts over. The system operates on the basis of multi-financing, namely, the financing is spread over several years.

We know what is on the table, but that should be the norm for all of the organizations, without exception. We need to know what we are going to be getting for the next two or three years. That would resolve many problems. Nevertheless, the funding has to be received on a timely basis, during the first year. Otherwise, it will not work.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau, for your intervention.

We will now continue with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First of all, I would like to thank you for coming here this morning and for your presentations. We will be meeting with government officials on this matter. I think that it is good that we meet with you beforehand, even though some may perhaps believe that we should not be meeting with you or members of the communities. In my opinion, having you give us an overall picture is a good thing. It would not be right to say that we did not know. We have spoken with you and we have been speaking of this issue for a long time.

Whether we are talking about the private sector or public and parapublic sectors, if you do not have the money required to manage an operation, it will not work. Try selling your car and getting the money only two years later on! It is the same thing. You cannot run an organization if you do not have the money.

We are not talking about private companies. Non-profit organizations have to turn to lines of credit and access personal credit cards. This is a disgrace. Section 43 and Part VII of the Official Languages Act talk about promoting minorities and communities. If we were to eliminate all of your organizations, do you think that the government could do everything by itself, and deal directly with each and every citizen?

[An honourable member]

No.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We therefore need organizations, and we must accept the fact that there are organizations. If we paralyze organizations such as yours and prevent them from doing their job, we might as well tell them that the government will deal directly with the people. Nothing is happening. How can you promote your community in the regions if you are not able to operate? If you submit an application in October or November... Government budgets are usually tabled in March. When the budgets are tabled, the money should be available. Would you agree with me?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I think that we need to rethink the cycle based on solutions, so that we can act more strategically. Even the smallest of organizations in Quebec has to work in a complicated environment. The organization is serving the community, whether it be in the Outaouais or in Rouyn-Noranda. We have to demonstrate the potential,

like a staying power, like a presence, a traditional presence, that they're there all the time, that people can rely on them, that they're not going to be gone next month or next year. So the cycle has to help organizations, big or small, be the most strategic they can be. Stable funding is an ingredient of that. Their stable funding is one ingredient. So, yes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Should it be money put right away for the administration to make sure the employees get paid? First of all, if you don't have any employees, you cannot do your job. Shouldn't there be a different way of funding, saying, okay, here you have your organization and you understand there are seven employees. Well, for sure, money has to come in there to make sure the employees are put in place, that they get their money, that they get paid. I mean, everybody wants their pay. I don't believe there's one member of Parliament here who doesn't want pay at the end of the month.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Oh really?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There isn't one judge in our country who doesn't want to get paid. If we recognize that you're an organization and you depend on some money from the federal government to help the people, there should be funding there, saying here is a certain amount of money that has to come.

The other one is organization, the program that you put together. You have put a program together and you say that's what we need for 2010. You're giving the program to the government in November. I mean, they have all those months; they could ask all the questions they want. But for Christ's sake, in March they should have the answer and give the money. It's still generous, talking about 50%; you should be getting the money.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

We will now give the floor to Mr. Royal Galipeau.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Merci, monsieur le président.

I want to thank you all for being here today.

I didn't like what I heard, but I suppose you didn't like saying what you did. It would have been better not to have to live with what you did.

I'd like to address my first comments to Mr. Donnelly. By the way, I'm sorry I missed this. You've been in business for 15 years. Has this kind of problem been going on for 15 years? Is it getting worse? Is it getting better?

[Robert Donnelly]

When we say “systemic problems”, it's year in and year out, for sure. It's the delays.

Mr. Godin will remember when we were here four months ago. At one point I said a cash advance that's normally due to organizations on April 1, at 25%, is not a cash advance when it comes in June or July.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I'm just trying to understand. Has this been going on for 15 years, or is this just a hiccup?

[Robert Donnelly]

In the six years that I've been involved, it has been every year.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Of course there are requirements you have to meet, because it is taxpayers' money. If they advance the deadlines, would that help?

[Robert Donnelly]

Well, we've already talked about--

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

With respect to the turnarounds, Treasury Board has policies. The federal government pays its bills within 30 days of the presentation of an invoice. If the federal government waits 45 days—a creditor is happy if he gets a cheque after 44 days, although he's supposed to get it after 30 days—the government is on the hook for interest as of day 30. It seems to me that when these guys make their reports, meet their deadlines, we should impose some deadlines on ourselves.

[Robert Donnelly]

To answer your question, I would say no, because the deadlines in the last three or four years have moved from January to December, and now we're told it's November.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Multi-year funding would improve the situation?

[Robert Donnelly]

Multi-year, yes.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

With respect to the requirements for lines of credit, the requirements can be different depending on how solid your organization is. There are requirements for getting credit cards too. Are these corporate credit cards? Corporate credit cards need some backing too.

[Lawrence dePoe]

These are personal credit cards.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I have spent my entire adult life defending the concept of linguistic minorities, particularly those living in French, in Ontario. This is very important to me, as is the defence of the French language. However, I feel that the defence of the English language in Canada is just as important as that of the French language. If we cannot defend the English language, it is going to become more and more difficult to defend the French language.

I would like to invite you to turn to page 35 of this beautiful document. You use American English. I'm going to try to become your advocate, but if I do manage to do this, I would like you to promise me that next year, if you provide us with another beautiful document of this type, you will use Canadian English and not American English. Do you understand?