Evidence of meeting #5 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was languages.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Pierre Coulombe  Acting Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Pascale Giguère  Acting Director, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

9 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Good morning everyone, and welcome to the fifth meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning, we have the pleasure of receiving committee members' favourite witness, the Commissioner of Official Languages. Mr. Fraser is accompanied by Ms. Lise Cloutier, Assistant Commissioner, Corporate Services Branch; Mr. Pierre Coulombe, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch; Ms. Pascale Giguère, Acting Director, Legal Affairs Branch; and Ms. Johane Tremblay, Acting Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch. We are pleased to have you here as part of the new parliamentary session.

Mr. Fraser, welcome.

Before we start, allow me to congratulate one of the members of our committee, Mr. D'Amours, who has been a father since Sunday morning. All our congratulations to your wife, Mr. D'Amours.

Commissioner, go ahead please.

9 a.m.

Graham Fraser Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

First, I want to offer you my congratulations. This is the first time I have seen you since the election. That may seem a while ago for you, but I congratulate you all the same.

It's always a pleasure to be here before the committee.

I would also like to thank the Chairman for introducing my team, particularly since it has been renewed.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to meet with you at the beginning of the new parliamentary session, and of course to congratulate all of you on the new mandate. Your committee, along with the Senate committee, is a vital link between my office and Parliament. Your reports and interventions contribute a great deal to the advancement of Canada's language rights.

It's a particularly inspiring time for me to be here because 2009 marks the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act. The right to use English or French in public institutions is one of the first language rights to have been guaranteed to Canadians, and as such I thought this was an ideal place to undertake a balanced assessment of the official language successes, challenges, and opportunities in Canada 40 years after the act was adopted.

Significant advancements have been made in terms of official languages. They include the work accomplished by the language groups themselves, particularly within official language communities, Quebec's French-speaking population and the French-as-a-second-language movement. Other advancements are the direct result of the actions taken by parliamentarians. Lastly, court rulings have brought about changes, particularly those made by the Supreme Court of Canada. In fact, the Supreme Court just handed down a very important ruling in the CALDECH case—or Desrochers, to use its formal name on—for which I served as co-appellant. I am delighted with this ruling because it is a victory for official language communities. This case helped clarify the scope of federal institutions' obligations to deliver bilingual services.

More specifically, the Court found it important to clearly establish that a broad view must be adopted when looking at linguistic equality, and that the Government must consider the nature and purpose of the service in question to take into account the specific needs of the official language communities. In some cases, identical treatment is therefore not appropriate to achieve linguistic equality in service delivery.

I'd like to give a few examples of the gains made over the past 40 years: the increase in the bilingual capacity of the public service, although it is still not perfect; the remarkable vitality of official language communities, which this Committee has studied closely; and the slow but steady increase in the number of bilingual Canadians, both among anglophones and francophones. These advancements have benefited the country as a whole, contributing not only to its prosperity in a variety of ways, but also to the well-being of its citizens.

What are the most important challenges now? Full implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act remains a key priority; significant importance will be placed on implementation in the performance report cards of several federal institutions that will be published with my annual report in May. While some federal institutions have taken positive measures to support the development of official language communities and promote linguistic duality, others are still wondering about their obligations. I took note of the work done by Canadian Heritage, which issued guidelines for the application of Part VII throughout the public service.

Federal institutions must take Part VII into account when delivering their programs, particularly in applying components of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, announced by the government in June 2008. Obviously, I am eagerly waiting for the government to share with the public the details of the investments announced and the initiatives to follow. In my view, the silence in the recent budget on this topic was a missed opportunity. If the government truly believes that linguistic equality is a Canadian value, it must be reflected in its actions. If commitments are not clearly established or if there are delays in implementing them, setbacks are often the result. This is why the current delay concerns me. For departments and their community partners, the new fiscal year starts in 34 days. I would think that this should prompt the Government to act quickly.

I see that many of you have shown interest in how the 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics and Paralympic Games will reflect Canada's linguistic duality. I share your interest. This global event presents a unique opportunity to show the world that linguistic duality is one of Canada's fundamental values, and to celebrate the cultural richness of its English- and French-speaking communities.

In a report I released on December 2 in Vancouver, I mentioned that the Vancouver Organizing Committee for the 2010 Olympic and Paralympic Winter Games demonstrated some interest in bilingualism, but work remains to be done in various areas. Special consideration should be given to communications with the general public, the media, and athletes, three groups that have a key role in ensuring successful games.

My report contains 18 recommendations on such things as simultaneous interpretation, bilingual volunteer recruitment, signage, sponsor participation, the role of the games secretariat, and resources allocated to the organization's official languages unit. The report was well received by VANOC, and we are monitoring the progress.

It seems to me that translation is one aspect that poses significant problems. In fact, the budget appears totally inadequate, given the work to be done, and I'm afraid that VANOC is waiting too long to correct the situation.

In addition to this study, we've undertaken an awareness campaign among the federal institutions whose contribution is vital to the success of the games. This involves the 20 or so institutions working on, for example, security, transportation, and direct service to the public. It's important that these institutions understand that people from Canada and abroad coming to the games will expect to interact with Canadian officials in both English and French. The Canadian Olympic experience will begin as soon as visitors arrive in Canada, not simply when they arrive on the Olympic site.

We are not only targeting the Vancouver airport facilities, but also the facilities in Toronto. Lester B. Pearson International Airport will act as the gateway to nearly half of the travellers from abroad who will be going to Vancouver. We have been in regular contact with the airport's administrators for the past several months and I recognize the immensity of the challenge in providing bilingual services during an exceptionally busy period.

Air Canada will have to take up a similar challenge. The airline's performance will be evaluated as part of its performance report card in my annual report, as will the performance of some major Canadian airports.

I am taking this opportunity to remind you that the government promised to introduce a bill during the 38th session of Parliament to maintain the language rights of the travelling public and Air Canada employees. Three bills to this effect have been introduced since Air Canada was restructured in 2004, including two from the current government, but all of them died on the order paper. The situation is critical because Air Canada's corporate structure is constantly changing, and the passage of time may make it impossible for the government to fulfil its commitment. I am therefore asking the government to introduce a new bill to fill this legislative gap as soon as possible.

Over the next few months, I will also be paying attention to changes in the federal government. We are currently witnessing the gradual departure of one generation of public servants and the arrival of another. As I mentioned earlier, I feel that public service renewal is an excellent opportunity to enhance the bilingual capacity of public servants and improve service to the public. However, if recruitment and training of new employees is carried out without taking bilingualism needs fully into account, the situation could become a source of concern.

A major change has just been made to official languages governance. Some of the duties of the Canada Public Service Agency will now be assumed by the Treasury Board. We still do not know what place official language issues will have in the future in this organization. I hope we will see changes that aim to improve the federal government's performance with regard to its language obligations as well as stronger leadership from the Treasury Board in this area.

I would now like to talk briefly about the Canadian Forces and linguistic equality, first because our discussions on this topic have always been extensive and constructive, but also to let you know that the comprehensive review of training offered by the forces is well under way. My employees have gone to several training locations over recent months. You should receive a report from me some time in the next year.

I was informed last month that the families of a number of French-speaking soldiers at the Edmonton base complained about the lack of French-language services offered by the family support centre. My regional representative has been looking into this problem for some time, and I've asked my staff to work on this with the military bases in Alberta and the franco-Albertan community. Our soldiers who are abroad for long periods should not have to wonder whether their families have access to the support services they are entitled to in their language. I believe this could have serious operational implications, and I plan to follow this issue closely.

In conclusion, I will not hide the fact that I fear that during these difficult economic times, governments will reduce investments in programs supporting the development of official language communities and language instruction. This is what happened in the mid-1990s, and the setbacks caused by that decision have barely been overcome to this day.

In a context of global trade, linguistic duality is an important asset we need to preserve. The federal government has very important responsibilities when it comes to official languages. There have always been setbacks during periods of unsteady leadership in Ottawa. Progress, on the other hand, has resulted from strong leadership. During this time of economic uncertainty it is especially important to maintain a strong hand at the helm and not jeopardize the gains made over the past 40 years.

We are obviously ensuring that the public funds used by my office are prudently managed. For example, our new internal audit committee, which I spoke to you about during our last meeting, has already contributed significantly to the sound management of our organization. At our request, the Office of the Auditor General continues to audit our financial statements each year and has given us an unreserved opinion for the fifth year in a row. All of the managers and executives working for my office are extremely proud of this mark of excellence and we intend to continue along this path.

Our work with the various federal institutions subject to the Official Languages Act is being done with the same concern for efficiency and results. During the last few months we have established new ways of dealing with complaints from the public and of being proactive in order to prevent and address situations that could lead to complaints.

Thank you for your attention.

We'll be happy to answer questions and to hear your comments.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Commissioner.

We'll now begin our first round with Mr. Pablo Rodriguez, from the official opposition.

9:15 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Commissioner, and to your team. I am very happy to see you here today. Thank you for accepting our invitation.

I think it's important to start the proceedings with you based on what was recently debated. Since there are a number of new members on this committee, it would be good for you to provide a wrap-up of recent months. Perhaps we could clarify certain priorities for the committee's future business.

You mentioned the 40th anniversary of the Official Languages Act. That's important, and I hope it will be celebrated. You will, no doubt, and I hope the government will as well. I assume it has plans and activities for that purpose. This is part of our identity.

Despite the ups and downs, your report is quite positive about the past 40 years. This is an essential tool that has played an important role in linguistic duality.

9:15 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

You always have to be measured when you make that assessment. If you compare the situation 40 years ago with that of today, there has obviously been progress. The public service was virtually unilingual 40 years ago. The country's francophones had major difficulties obtaining the right to basic services. Simultaneous interpretation only made its appearance in the House 50 years ago. Only 11 years later, the Official Languages Act was passed, despite very strong public opposition. It should not be forgotten how stormy debate was over the passage of the Official Languages Act 40 years ago. In certain parts of the country, opposition to the idea was ferocious. Now there's widespread support for the status of both official languages in Canada; that is to say that it is in the range of about 80%.

But we should not always be looking back and congratulating ourselves, when we know the ideal the Official Languages Act represents and how far it still is from being achieved. Enormous progress remains to be made. I don't need to tell you that there are problems in the areas of language of work and the offer of service.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

We've made some progress, but there are a lot of challenges. This is still an essential tool.

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

I'd like you to provide me with some clarification on the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. I don't really know where we stand. Mr. Lord conducted a consultation some time ago and tabled his report in February of last year.

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Exactly where do things stand? Is it in place?

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I'm still waiting for details on the Roadmap. I'm starting to get a little impatient.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

The report was tabled a year ago.

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

The government announced the highlights of the plan in June. It was a $1.1 billion plan over five years containing a number of envelopes. I said how relieved I was to learn of that announcement. I was quite concerned because there were no figures on that in last year's budget. However, I'm still waiting for the details. I'm told the department is seriously working on it.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

The money's planned for; there is a budget.

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I'm assured that it is.

9:20 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

You're assured that it is. I'd also like the committee to monitor this matter. This is a fundamental part of the government's official languages strategy. We're all familiar with the very important role that the Dion Plan played at the time. I assume and hope that the Roadmap will play as important a role.

I'm really anxious to see it. You have to understand that we've been here for a while. The Lord Report was submitted to the minister in February 2008, and he made it public in March. In June, some things were announced to us, and, since then, we've been waiting.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez.

Mr. Nadeau, you may continue.

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Fraser. I have a number of questions concerning customs, the public service, Air Canada and the struggle against assimilation as a whole.

First, let's talk about customs. As you may have read in Le Droit, a certain Mr. Lauzière returned to Ottawa from Nevada. He wondered if he had arrived in Montana because no one would serve him in French. Have you heard about the welcome the Canadian customs service gives to people from Gatineau, from elsewhere in Quebec or Canada who return from other countries? Can they get service in French? Where are the deficiencies and what remains to be done?

9:20 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

There was that complaint and others. Border Services is facing considerable challenges. We were in touch with the department and, in particular, with the Ottawa Airport people. We had quite intense discussions in an effort to make them aware of and realize their obligations. So we're taking this issue seriously and we're getting to work to ensure the institution corrects the existing deficiencies.

9:20 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

This is about government services or, at least, services that report to the federal government. Whoever has a business or is established at the airport must comply with the Official Languages Act; that is to say they must offer services in English and in French. That aspect should also be examined with regard to businesses. I sometimes do business with the Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport, and I see it definitely isn't setting an example in that regard.

As regards the federal public service, we're talking about renewal and recruitment. Given the new demographics and the number of people retiring, new employee cohorts will become established. That will require changes.

Don't you believe we should favour people who are already bilingual rather than ask employees to take courses every five years? We know the old refrain. People's contracts are often renewed for another five-year period to enable them to learn French. They ultimately arrive at the end of their career and still haven't learned much French. In so doing, they haven't been able to offer service in French or to work in French with their colleagues for whom French is their first language and who have a right to work in French.

Don't you believe that adequate knowledge of English and French should be an important criterion in reviewing applicants? In the same way as a physician must know medicine before being allowed to practise, shouldn't a public servant or an employee of an agency or Crown corporation automatically have to be bilingual?

9:25 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I admit I'm sometimes tempted by that analogy with people who would like to become judges, but who have forgotten to take a law course. Although bilingualism is a major advantage, it must be acknowledged that only 40% of positions in the public service are designated bilingual. Furthermore, the right of employees to work in their language is more pronounced in certain regions of the country. It must also be acknowledged that not all students from across the country have access to appropriate language training in the other official language.

What we're trying to do is to send universities and the provinces the message that this isn't an absolute criterion for entering the public service, but it's definitely essential in order to rise through the ranks. We're also trying to make the public service understand how important it is to include the language issue in the training plans of new employees on their arrival in the public service, rather than wait for their career to progress as far as a supervisory position.

For the first time, I'm being told about the ongoing language training needs not only of anglophones, but also for francophones who arrive in Ottawa.

We shouldn't claim that every citizen has an obligation to become bilingual. The goal of the policy is for the government to be able to serve citizens in the language of their choice. Before even ensuring that people across the country have equal access to quality language training in both official languages, there will inevitably always be a need for employee training, and it is important to offer employees training at the very start of their career.

9:25 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

Mr. Nadeau, you'll have the opportunity to ask other questions, but I simply want to inform committee members that I have submitted our Roadmap to the Commissioner. He'll be in a position to see that the principal aspect of the committee's work is to evaluate the federal government's support for the efforts of postsecondary institutions to promote bilingualism in Canada.

That being said, let's continue with Mr. Godin.

9:25 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Good morning, Mr. Commissioner. Good morning to your associates as well.

You say you are encouraged by the changes that have occurred over the past 40 years. We have to look to the future, not only to the past. Don't you think that 40 years is a long time to secure compliance with an act? Because it is indeed an act. If I drive at a 110 or 120 km/hr on the highway and am stopped by the police, can I tell the officer that I have 40 years to obey the law, or will I be forced to obey immediately?

9:25 a.m.

Commissioner of Official Languages, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

There are laws that, in order to be enforced, require changes in behaviour, in the operation of institutions, but also in the individuals who work in those institutions. Some aspects have definitely been very slow, and I am still frustrated that institutions do not acknowledge their obligations. My work is to make the federal institutions understand that they have obligations under the act and that they must meet them.

9:30 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

I agree with that, but, in another sense, there is an act. Let's take a private at National Defence who wants to work in his language, who wants to learn his occupation in his language, but can't do that. There's a violation of the act. It isn't simply a matter of telling an institution that it has 40 years to adjust and to give it 40 more years to do so. There are violations of the act. It isn't just that the institution has to adapt; the act has to be complied with.