Official Languages Committee on June 3rd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Good morning everyone.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), a study of immigration as a development tool in official language in official language minority communities, we have many witnesses this morning.

This morning, we have a series of witnesses that I would describe as impressive.

First of all, we will be hearing from representatives of the Metropolis Project, including the Executive Head, Mr. Howard Duncan.

Welcome to our committee, Mr. Duncan.

With him is Ms. Julie Boyer, Deputy Executive Head of the Metropolis Project.

Welcome to the committee.

We also have with us the Executive Director of the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse, or FANE, Mr. Jean Léger.

Welcome.

He is accompanied by Mr. Donald Kenny, as an individual, who is Director of the Halifax campus of the Université Saint-Anne.

Welcome, Mr. Kenny.

Also, from the Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick, we welcome the President, Mr. Jean-Marie Nadeau. I am almost tempted to say that he is a regular at this committee. This morning, he is with the Coordinator of Francophone Immigration, Ms. Anne-Lise Blin.

Welcome one and all.

Without any further ado,

I would invite Mr. Duncan and Madame Boyer to begin with an opening statement.

[Howard Duncan, Executive Head, Metropolis Project, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much.

I would like to thank the chair for the kind invitation to the Metropolis Project to appear before the standing committee. It is a pleasure for Julie Boyer and me to be here.

In our opening remarks, I will begin with a general description of the Metropolis Project. Julie will close with a description of our activities on official language minority communities in Canada.

Metropolis is a Canada-led international network of academic researchers, government officials, and NGOs who are all dedicated to the enhancement of policy on migration and diversity through the application of empirical scientific research. In Canada, Metropolis supports five university-based research centres headquartered in Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton, and Vancouver, which receive funding from 13 government departments to carry out a program of policy research in six areas of priority that were decided by the federal funders.

These six are: economic and labour market integration; housing and neighbourhoods; citizenship and social, cultural, and civic integration; policing, justice, and security; families, children, and youth; and welcoming communities, within which Metropolis researchers examine official language minority language communities in Canada.

Twenty Canadian universities are involved as formal partners in the centres. Researchers from most other Canadian universities are less formally involved.

Each research centre receives approximately $325,000 per year for infrastructure support and research and each leverages an additional roughly $1 million per year for research from other sources. The Metropolis secretariat is responsible for overall stewardship, promotion and network development, and knowledge transfer.

I would like to emphasize that the secretariat neither conducts research of its own nor develops policy. Through our knowledge transfer work, we inform policy-making within the federal partnership, but we do not have a policy responsibility and therefore do not speak for the government on its policies or its programs, despite the fact that we at the secretariat are all employees of Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

Funding for Metropolis has been provided since 1996 in five-year increments. Current funding expires on March 31, 2012.

The International Metropolis Project is an unfunded activity that now encompasses a policy research network from roughly 40 countries in North America, Europe, Asia, and Australasia, with a small number of countries in Africa and Latin America. The international project is managed by the Ottawa secretariat, with some assistance from a branch office at the University of Amsterdam.

The most public work of the secretariat is to publicize research through our website and our paper publications and to organize conferences and seminars in Canada and abroad. Our annual national and international conferences each attract about 1,000 people and are now considered to be the largest and most important regular immigration and diversity conferences in the world.

Through these events, we try to lead our network's research and policy thinking towards emerging trends and the societal changes that most need attending to by governments. The degree of attention that is now paid to immigration and diversity has risen as a result of Metropolis' lead. This includes work on official language minority communities, which were little researched until Metropolis began developing a network and organizing discussions on the topic, as Julie Boyer will describe to you momentarily.

Overall, it is our ambition to play a strong and positive role in supporting evidence-based decision-making by government agencies in Canada and abroad.

I'll now, if I may, turn the microphone over to my colleague, Julie Boyer.

[Julie Boyer, Deputy Executive Head, Metropolis Project, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Thank you very much, Howard.

It was in 2007, in Toronto, after the Strategic Plan had been published, that the Metropolis Project first organized a session on Francophone immigration to minority communities. The purposes of that event were to take stock of the research being done and to allow federal government representatives to articulate their research needs directly to researchers and community partners. Only some 40 persons attended; fewer than half of them were researchers studying these issues. From that session, we learned that economic integration is the first step toward retaining French-speaking immigrants but that, outside Quebec, people need to speak English if they want to find work. As a result, French-language settlement organizations are called on not only to provide assistance with English-language economic integration, but also to develop Francophone networks.

The success of the first pre-conference session and the release of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality encouraged us to plan a second pre-conference session in 2008 in Moncton. The purpose of that event was to continue the discussion about the challenges of social integration by inviting a number of community organizations and immigrants to share their on-the-ground experiences. The main issues raised had to do with Francophone identity in Canada and immigrants' place within that identity, and with awareness-raising to be done in host communities.

The third pre-conference session, held in 2009 in Calgary, attracted over 100 participants, one third of whom were researchers. Participants engaged at length in discussions of barriers to integration. The concept emerged of dual or even triple minority status: Francophone immigrants in a majority Anglophone environment, members of a visible minority and, in many cases, refugees having had traumatic experiences prior to the immigration process.

Researchers and community stakeholders agree that in Francophone minority communities, whether rural or urban, the school is identified as an agent of community liaison that is vital in integrating children and parents as well. Some schools go so far as to offer courses for parents in English as a second language, in addition to Francization courses, to ensure that the family stays in the French-speaking community.

The fourth pre-conference session was held in 2010, recently, in Montreal, with over 180 persons in attendance. Participants comprised roughly equal numbers of researchers, community representatives and federal, provincial and territorial decision-makers. We invited Citizenship and Immigration Canada, the Department of Canadian Heritage, the Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie, and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada to report not only on progress made, but also on persistent challenges in addressing these issues. For example, a shared definition of “Francophone community”, building a sense of belonging to the Canadian Francophonie as a whole, and not just to a particular French-speaking community, greater clarity about municipalities' role, and stronger partnerships with the private sector were areas that revealed both challenges and concrete objectives for work to be done.

On that occasion, we developed the best practices manual. This manual, which highlights programs and projects that promote Francophone immigration to minority communities, was designed as a tool for host communities to use, particularly in their efforts to retain newcomers. As well, the current research compendium, which contains 16 recent research capsules, was designed as a tool to provide decision-makers with information on emerging issues in this regard. These two publications have already been sent to members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Today, we have brought for your attention an issue of the journal entitled Canadian Issues on Immigration and Diversity in Francophone Minority Communities. This issue was produced in 2008 by the Metropolis Project in cooperation with the Association for Canadian Studies. We would also be pleased to share with you a list of researchers in the Metropolis network who are studying these issues, their field of expertise and their contact information, if you wish to invite them to appear before you.

In conclusion, since the Metropolis Project has created a space for in-depth discussions among researchers, decision-makers and community representatives, we have seen increased interest in issues of Francophone immigration to minority communities. Now, more researchers are taking an interest in these issues and devoting research projects to them. We hope that our contribution to this research will be of use to governments and communities in their efforts to promote official language immigration to minority communities. We shall continue to explore these issues on March 23, 2011, in Vancouver, and we hope to be able to follow up on your recommendations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Boyer.

We will move now to Mr. Léger.

[Jean Léger, Executive Director, Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I am the Director of the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse. I am accompanied by Donald Kenny, Director of the Halifax campus of the Université Sainte-Anne. We would like to thank you for this opportunity to present our views on Francophone immigration.

For several years, the population of minority Francophone communities, especially in our province, has been declining. This population decline is the result of several factors: a lower birthrate, an aging population, the rural exodus, among others. Faced with this issue, the community is focussing on immigration as one of the solutions.

The primary mission of the FANE is to neutralize the assimilation of Francophones in the province and enrich this country's two official languages. Its main goals are: to promote the shared interests of the Francophone population of Nova Scotia; to develop a dialogue between Francophone associations, institutions, agencies and organizations in Nova Scotia; to act as both an interest group and a community development organization; to act as the official spokesperson for the Francophone population of Nova Scotia; and, to ensure the linguistic, cultural, economic, social and political survival, as well as the development, of the Acadian people in Nova Scotia.

From its beginnings, the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse has contributed to the emergence and development of a number of files, relating to educational, economic, political, and sociocultural issues, as well as to youth, women, seniors, literacy, immigration and communications. The FANE also pressured the provincial government to move forward on adopting the French Services Act in 2004, which is now in effect.

Since 2006, and thanks to financial support from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, or CIC, and from the Nova Scotia Office of Immigration, the FANE has been providing settlement services to Francophone immigrants through its Francophone immigration program. We now serve approximately 200 Francophone immigrants in Nova Scotia. The goals of the FANE's Francophone immigration project are as follows: to increase the number of newcomers settling in Nova Scotia and retain those who are already here; to foster the integration of newcomers to the province, specifically into the Acadian and Francophone community; and to expand the capacity of the Acadian and Francophone communities in Nova Scotia to receive and integrate newcomers. We have also participated a number of times in international recruitment activities, such as Destination Canada, in cooperation with the province. We are also contributing to the province's repopulation strategy by recommending potential economic Francophone immigrants under the Nova Scotia Nominee Program.

The Acadian and Francophone community in our province was able to be part of the first provincial immigration strategy beginning in 2005. Since then, we have seen a slow but steady increase in Francophone immigration to Nova Scotia. Furthermore, the Acadian and Francophone community in Nova Scotia enjoys excellent relations with the Office of Immigration, which offers bilingual capacity and is investing $100,000 in the Francophone immigration project. With a view to advancing Francophone immigration in our province, the FANE decided six years ago to establish a provincial steering committee composed of the main community players, including the Université Sainte-Anne, and involving the participation of our main government partners, such as CIC and the Nova Scotia Office of Immigration. Our current activities are guided by a five-year action plan. Increasingly, Francophone community activists are taking an interest, and especially, getting involved in several different areas, including training, employability, health services for immigrants or services for immigrant women. We can also rely on our excellent relations with the Immigration Office and the Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada, who sit on the committee as observers.

At the regional level in the Atlantic provinces, the Société Nationale de l'Acadie has also developed a work plan with key stakeholders in the four Atlantic provinces in order to strengthen and bring sharper focus to our work in the area of promotion and advocacy, as well as dialogue and cooperation. We also sit on the CIC Steering Committee - Francophone Minority Communities, which is coordinated by the FCFA. However, despite these plans and a lot of enthusiasm, we are facing some very major challenges, particularly those related to rural immigration. Some communities are faring well, such as Baie Sainte-Marie or the Municipality of Clare, in Southwestern Nova Scotia, thanks to the presence of the Université Sainte-Anne, among other factors.

However, the Halifax region is a natural magnet for immigrants in general, and a proportion of them are Francophone. Resources for providing equivalent services in French are often unavailable when they arrive. In spite of what the province told you recently at these hearings, to the effect that ISIS—Immigrant Settlement and Integration Services—was providing services in French and was a small organization, you should know that, in actual fact, ISIS offers very few services in French—practically none. Its website is in English only and is huge, compared to available resources in the Francophone community.

As you can understand, the community would like to provide these services, but it is unable to do so, for lack of means. The governments involved often argue that we cannot receive funding because we don't have the required number of immigrants. Obviously we don't have the required numbers, since no services are available. It's a vicious cycle.

It was the same situation when we asked for our own Francophone schools; again we had to justify the numbers. It is difficult to get away from that vicious cycle. As you may recall, Supreme Court rulings were needed in order for Francophones to secure their own schools.

Our fear is that this is working against the community. We have heard comments from immigrants in Nova Scotia to the effect that Francophones have nothing to offer and wondering why they would turn to us. Compared to an institution like ISIS, the community provides few services.

We are suggesting that the federal government provide more financial support to the provinces for Francophone immigration. We recognize that each of the provinces has official languages clauses, but the fact is they have very little or no funding available—as is the case in our own province—to support Francophone immigration.

We commend the federal government on its recent initiative in the province of New Brunswick and its decision to invest $10 million via the Roadmap. It could be great if the federal government would also find some money for our province, so as to help the community move forward with respect to Francophone immigration, and particularly the intake and recruitment of immigrants.

At this point, we would like to undertake a recruitment campaign, but we don't have the necessary funding. So, we are forced to try and move forward with almost nothing—a small website and basically by word of mouth.

We also have questions about CIC's bilingual capacity in Nova Scotia. Although there is one bilingual officer, the department as a whole provides very few services. We would also like CIC to play more of an interdepartmental role in that regard. Immigration is a societal project, but I believe more federal government departments should be getting involved. I will name just a few: Service Canada, Human Resources Development Canada, the Rural Secretariat or ACOA. In my opinion, CIC should be playing an interdepartmental role and working jointly with these departments to support Francophone immigration.

As regards refugees, our clientele includes a large number of refugees, but again, we don't have any funding. Basically, all the money goes to ISIS. We have made requests to CIC, but CIC recently replied that all the money had been given to ISIS, that there was none left and that they would see about next year. It's a little frustrating.

Halifax takes in some Francophone refugees, primarily from the Great Lakes region.

A pilot project for Francophone refugees is also underway at this time in Manitoba. We would like to see that extended more quickly to the other provinces, and particularly Nova Scotia.

In closing, we want to make it perfectly clear that the community wants to take full responsibility for the intake, integration and recruitment of Francophone immigrants in Nova Scotia, with adequate resources.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Léger.

When you say the Great Lakes, I gather you are talking about the Great Lakes region of Africa, are you not?

[Jean Léger]

Yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Fine, thank you.

Mr. Kenny, please.

[Donald Kenny, Member, Campus Director, Université Sainte-Anne, Halifax Campus, Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and members of the parliamentary committee. Thank you for your invitation to appear today to discuss such an important issue for the official language minority communities.

I would just like to share two success stories with you about the labour market integration of Francophone immigrants in the greater Halifax area. These projects were carried out by the Halifax campus of the Université Sainte-Anne. Both were funded through the Canada—Nova Scotia Labour Market Agreement. The Nova Scotia Office of Immigration acted as manager of part of the immigrant-related funding under that agreement.

At the end of my presentation, I will be making a number of recommendations that I believe are important in order for the campus and the community to participate fully in the harmonious integration of Francophone immigrants into the greater Halifax region.

These two projects were made possible through the considerable support provided by the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse and staff from the Grand-Havre Community Board. I want to express my sincere thanks for the exceptional cooperation that occurred and I hope it will be possible in future to continue this unique partnership with Francophone immigrants.

As I thought about my presentation today, I realized that we have accomplished a great deal in very little time. We have been working in this area for less than three years. I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that all of this was accomplished with one part-time employee and the support of the staff and facilities of the Université Saint-Anne. All the training workshop services were provided by casual employees or volunteers.

Thus far, we have delivered two projects. They included training and work experience for Francophone immigrants. In particular, we presented workshops to facilitate labour market integration, training in communications and the use of computers, internships, and finally, paid workplace experience.

The 2009 pilot project, which lasted 12 weeks and was funded by the Nova Scotia Office of Immigration, for a total of $38,000, allowed us to recruit, train and provide two-week internships to seven participants. The pilot project was intended to determine the feasibility of managing this type of project aimed at Francophone immigrants from our base on the campus, and to establish a basis for partnership with Francophone community partners. The aim of the project was to facilitate the transition to the provincial labour market. Participants had no work experience in Canada. All the participants, except for one, benefited from the training and internships. Of the seven participants, two secured employment following this work experience. Indeed, they are still in those jobs.

As a result of several evaluations of the pilot project, we determined that the project was of inadequate duration and that the two-week internship should be changed in order to better reflect the realities of the provincial labour market. In addition, training in English as a second language appeared to be an essential requirement for most of the project participants.

Upon completion of the pilot project, we submitted a second request for funding to the Nova Scotia Office of Immigration in the summer of 2009 to deliver a similar project that would last longer. That project began in October, 2009. The 25-week project included 10 weeks of workshops and 6 weeks of paid work. We completed the project in late March, 2010, with the allocated budget of $131,628. We achieved the two main outcomes set for the project, which were that immigrants secure relevant work experience or that this experience encourage them to continue their studies with a view with entering the labour market at a later date. Of the nine participants, five now have permanent jobs, three would like to go back to school in September, and one still does not have a job.

We submitted a third request for funding to the Office of Immigration in February, 2010 for a 52-week project with a budget of $328,457. That amount will allow us to provide training and work experience throughout fiscal year 2010-2011. Three elements in particular distinguish it from previous proposals: the project is intended to last as much as 52 weeks, paid work experience will last between six and 16 weeks, and twenty weeks of training in English as a second language on campus is also included. We will be using the program funded by Citizenship and Immigration Canada though its Language Instruction for Newcomers to Canada program, or LINC. We are currently in discussions with the Nova Scotia Office of Immigration, and hope to sign an agreement soon.

As a follow-up to this limited experience with Francophone immigrants, and as a means of pursuing the harmonious integration of these immigrants into our minority community, we are making the following recommendations.

Authorities responsible for enforcing the Official Languages Act must continue to rigourously monitor the services provided to minority Francophone communities, including services that have been devolved to the provinces.

Services aimed at integrating Francophone immigrants into our region, including services and training in English as a second language, must be offered on a priority basis by Francophone organizations. It is critical to involve the Francophone community, in order to facilitate the social, cultural and economic integration of these immigrants into our minority community.

Appropriate and multi-year funding must be available. It must take into consideration our realities as official language minority communities as regards achievement of project outcomes.

Integration services aimed at Francophone immigrants, including labour market integration services, must be available throughout the year.

Thank you, and I am now available to take your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Kenny. Before that, however, we are going to move to Northern Nova Scotia, with Mr. Nadeau.

Mr. Nadeau, please.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau, President, Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick]

Good morning and thank you for inviting us to make a short presentation. I am going to set aside my written brief so that we can have a frank discussion. As I was “surfing” over what the Commissioner of Official Languages said last week, I thought to myself that it may be time here in Canada for official languages to cease being a burden and start being considered a fundamental value. I have to say I'm very proud of what the Commissioner said, because he is starting to speak the same language as the communities.

We find ourselves constantly wondering why it is still suspect to aspire to achieve our full growth and development, and how that can still represent a threat to this country. That is the question we ask ourselves. We love this country, but sometimes we would like this country to like us more and like us better, and provide us with the necessary means. As things now stand, we are given enough to “keep our mouths shut”, but we are not given enough to reach the heights we are aiming for. And this is where Francophone immigration comes in. It has become kind of a trend, but it has to be more than that. It also has to translate into concrete facts.

I would like to introduce Anne-Lise Blin, who is originally from France and was hired two or three weeks ago as the Provincial Francophone Immigration Coordinator. Of course, New Brunswick received $10 million in 2008, but we still don't know whether this is what Mr. Harper has given Bernard Lord to co-chair his election campaign or whether it is the result of brilliant negotiations with Mr. Harper on the part of the Graham government. But we really could not care less. What we do not care about, however, is the fact that it took two years for them to agree on how to invest it. The money was only released this year, through the federal government, its spokesperson and ACOA. Why ACOA is involved, I do not know. The provincial spokesperson on how the funds are to be used is the New Brunswick Population Growth Secretariat.

The most important thing is for this to be delivered, except that this agreement will end in 2013 and, given the problems involved in negotiations, we would like to see them begin now to negotiate renewal of the agreement in 2013. That way, perhaps there won't be an interruption in our activities in 2013 when we are already hard at work.

I myself married an immigrant, a woman from France, to whom I was married for 38 years; unfortunately, she died on March 8. I believe she was a role model when it comes to integration. In the case of Anne-Lise, who is also a French immigrant, her parents had been invited to emigrate to Canada. However, it is the daughter that actually came, and she herself will be giving birth in July to a little Acadian boy or girl.

In fact, the best way for us, Acadians from New Brunswick, to be Canadian is to be fully Acadian; that is our original way of enriching the country. That is why we also are anxious to receive and integrate as many immigrants as possible. Unfortunately, here as elsewhere, we are no longer producing enough babies and thus we need to take in Francophone immigrants—Francophones yes, but not only Francophones. I believe there are some success stories in Quebec where Chileans, Colombians and Latin Americans are seen to be the immigrants that are most easily integrated into Francophone communities. That is why we are trying to recruit immigrants from the Latino community in New Brunswick. I know there is a young Colombian working at the Edmundston campus of the Université of Moncton. He is very well integrated in the community. I believe his name is Pablo, or something similar.

Even our African friends are coming to us. We like them so much that we no longer call them “Africans”; now we call them “Africadians”. That expression is a reflection of integration. Let's stop talking and start acting. That will also help to improve Canada's image. There has to be more celebration and better recognition of the place of Francophones in Canada.

That is what concerns me most. It seems to me that if it is truly a fundamental part of our Canadian identity, we're going to have to work a little harder to help it grow. I will actually be attending a work session that Mauril Bélanger is organizing next Monday on behalf of the Liberal Party, as I understand it. We are prepared to meet with the Conservative Party, the NDP and even the Rhinoceros Party, if need be, to make people understand that Acadians want to contribute to this country. The days when Acadians were content to ask for things are over now. We have become contributors.

We have now achieved a level of education which has created a desire—and the necessary confidence—to bring more and more immigrants into our communities. Indeed, as is the case elsewhere in Canada—and I presume that you have heard this often enough since you've been holding hearings—there is the issue of foreign credential recognition. What is this nonsense? At least Quebec has signed an agreement with France for physicians, so that a French physician can now emigrate to that province and begin to practice medicine almost the day after he arrives. We now have a school of medicine in New Brunswick, where doctors are trained through the University of Sherbrooke, so why could we not be more proactive in situations like that?

There is a shortage of 200 truckers in New Brunswick, and I can't believe that in France… There are 100,000 unemployed North Africans in Belgium, and I can't believe that we couldn't find 200 truck drivers among them. Sometimes I wonder how it is that some people are rejected by the system. We have certain needs, and it seems to me that there are enough people out there to make a world and a country like Canada. That's why we want to be more proactive. The Acadian community in New Brunswick is somewhat allergic to the concept of a minority. We are not a minority; we are equal. Since the Act was passed in 1982, the two communities have been equal. Indeed, we want to be treated as two equal communities, and fortunately, we are behaving more and more in a way that reflects that reality. Of course we are minority communities, but we are no less valuable. As I get a kick out of saying to my members, a small apple is no less an apple than a large apple. And a people small in number is no less a people than one large in number. Furthermore, the people of New Brunswick are inclined to want to welcome newcomers to their communities.

And, of course, there has to be recognition of credentials. I may ask Ms. Blin to talk later about the concept of temporary permits, students and permanent permits. It must also be recognized that, in New Brunswick, we Francophones want to bring people in, not to make them part of our minority, but to integrate them into a community that is expanding. We are also recommending that the committee pay close attention to how the first $10 million the federal government so kindly provided to New Brunswick is being used. We know that the work will not be completed in the next three years. While it's a long process, at this point, we should be thinking of renewal of the multi-year plan.

Furthermore, as I mentioned earlier, perhaps because of our own originality in New Brunswick, we are just as anxious to work with the 200 million Francophones around the world as with people of Latin American origin, whom we mustn't forget. In these countries, 40% and 50% of the population is under the age of 20. Do you not think they will be looking for work somewhere, at some point, and do you not agree there is extraordinary potential in Latin America, in terms of also increasing our Francophone population? I strongly believe there is.

So, I would like to ask Anne-Lise to make some comments in her capacity as an immigrant to this country, and talk a little bit about temporary permits and students.

[Anne-Lise Blin, Coordinator, Francophone Immigration, Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick]

Thank you, Jean-Marie.

Good morning everyone, and thank you for your invitation.

I fully support all the comments Jean-Marie has made thus far. He went over the recommendations you have in front of you. I would simply like to mention one other aspect related to the mandate of CIC, which does not recognize temporary permits and students. It favours only permanent residents, which unfortunately poses a challenge for the communities, because funding is not available to help temporary residents and students, who are nevertheless individuals with real potential as permanent residents.

I am an example of that. I came here under the Working Holiday Program, simply to discover the region, and subsequently returned with a work permit. I am currently in the process of securing permanent residency, and soon will obtain citizenship. We believe there is a need to work with the University of Moncton, but Nova Scotia has the same problem. There are a lot of international students—Francophone students. We want to keep them here, but unfortunately, we have nothing to offer them in the way of services, and as a result, we lose them. There is a need to broaden CIC's mandate.

In New Brunswick, we are lucky that an agreement has been signed with the Population Growth Secretariat providing for a $10 million budget. The Secretariat recognizes temporary immigrants and students. That is an advantage that we have compared to other provinces. So, this is something that should be looked at. That is the point I wanted to add.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you both very much. I am sure committee members have quite a few questions for you. Without any further ado, we will begin with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I also would like to thank you all for being here this morning. Mr. Nadeau, you did not read your statement. However, I did take the time to read the documentation we were provided.

I would like to say one thing that everyone already knows. At the present time, Francophones represent one third of the population of New Brunswick. Francophones, in particular, represent 32.7% of the population, of which 5% are immigrants. You are seeking some balance. Provincial government officials were here several weeks ago to talk about the $10 million, but there is no obligation or clear indication of the percentage of Francophone immigrants that New Brunswick is hoping to attract.

The goal is apparently 5,000 immigrants, although it's not clear. You mentioned that Francophone immigrants represent 5%. However, if you compare that percentage to the kind of balance you are seeking to achieve—about one third, I imagine—the fact is, we are quite far off the mark when it comes to New Brunswick.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

Yes, very far off the mark.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If you don't mind, I will just continue, because I know that you are a good talker. I will let you comment afterwards.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

You noticed that, did you?

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

I think it will be easier that way, because otherwise, I will have to cut you off.

[A voice]

He is from Madawaska.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

You are both from Madawaska; now I understand.

On Tuesday of this week, we heard some heart-rending testimony at the Samuel-Genest Catholic College here in Ottawa. Francophone immigrants, students and teachers explained their reality.

Whether we're talking about Francophone immigration to French-speaking areas or to English-speaking areas, the biggest problem we're facing is that we can't seem to integrate Francophone immigrants, wherever they decide to settle.

In terms of employment, social integration or meeting their basic needs, the fact is that we are not even able to meet these needs. We want to bring them here, but we are not capable of looking after them.

I know that Ms. Boyer mentioned earlier that there are a lot of meetings taking place with researchers. It's great to be asking researchers to observe what is going on, but what is needed is for people to take the trouble to go and see these people, in order to understand what they are going through. In our area, that is what I did through the Carrefour d'immigration rurale de Saint-Léonard which is facing serious issues, partly connected to integration.

I would like you to address these two issues: the actual percentages, compared to the goal for the province of New Brunswick, and integration. Perhaps you can use the example of New Brunswick this time.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

Certainly, in our discussions with the government, we are aiming for at least 32.7% of total immigrants. If the idea is to attract 5,000, at least 1,500 to 2,000 of them should be Francophone. I believe that should be the government's objective. That's why we are very pleased to finally have funding and to have been able to start bringing the main players together, including the people of Saint-Léonard.

The Acadian Peninsula has just acquired a coordination centre in Bathurst. There is also the CAIIMM, which is the Centre d'accueil et d'intégration des immigrants et des immigrantes du Moncton métropolitain. This has to be part of the government's plan, but it is not for the time being. In practice, we are nowhere near that, because they are talking about less than 5% at this point.

The province of New Brunswick is a province that people leave to go elsewhere, not a province that people come from. It is obvious that we will not be able to resolve all the issues on our own. We will have to work closely with the government. The model for integrating Francophone immigrants in Canada is currently the one used in French-speaking Manitoba, because in that province, the people have a symbiotic relationship with their government. I don't know whether that is because a New Democrat government is in office, Mr. Godin, but they do work together. For us, their way of doing things has become a model to be followed in terms of integrating immigrants. That is the way the government and communities should be working together, and it is what we aspire to.

As I said, there is some turbulence on the provincial scene. The Population Growth Secretariat used to be part of Enterprise New Brunswick. Now it is under the Ministry of Post-Secondary Education, Training and Labour, which has more of a general mandate, in my opinion. In terms of diploma equivalencies, that may help. This year in New Brunswick, we have taken a step forward in terms of linguistic duality. At the post-secondary level, French-language community colleges are now grouped together under the name Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick. So, we will be able to work directly with the colleges and universities. With respect to--

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Marie Nadeau]

Holy God!

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

It's a good thing I asked my questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes.

We will move to Mr. Nadeau.