Official Languages Committee on March 16th, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Welcome, everybody, to the third meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), we will study support of the federal government to the francophone media.

This morning, we have the pleasure of welcoming the representatives of the written press and the media. Mr. Potié, Executive Director of the Association de la presse francophone, is with us this morning. He is accompanied by Ms. Geneviève Gazaille, Director of Communications and Government Relations. Welcome to the committee.

Also with us today is the Secretary General of the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada, Mr. François Côté, who is accompanied by Mr. Simon Forgues, Development and Communications Officer.

First, I would ask you to give your opening presentation, and then we will go to the round of questioning.

Mr. Potié, the floor is yours.

[Francis Potié, Executive Director, Association de la presse francophone]

Thank you for the invitation.

As you know, the APF is an association representing French-language newspapers that work in official language minority communities. Our members are in nine provinces and two and a half territories. We were supposed to appear before the committee in December. The situation has changed somewhat since that time, but I will nonetheless take a few minutes to discuss the Canada Periodical Fund, which will come into force on April 1. I will then outline a number of issues that are linked to Internet development and a cross-Canada project involving a number of organizations that we are working on, namely, a performance evaluation of media in a minority situation.

I will begin with the Canada Periodical Fund. For some years now, the APF has been recommending to the government that the fund's predecessor have a component or a silo on official languages that takes into account the reality in our communities. Over the years, we felt that the government was listening, but in terms of concrete results, we did not necessarily see a program that provided better support to the newspapers that are members of our association.

As concerns the most recent program review, consultations began in February 2008. We participated actively in these consultations and, in our opinion, the results were very positive for the French-language press and the English-language newspaper in Quebec. In very concrete terms, what this means for the APF is that the number of members eligible for this program could increase from 13 to 17. The financial support provided is recurring and permanent. We are very encouraged by the changes made to the program, but I would just like to specify that I am referring here to the criteria. We will have to see about the actual implementation of the program. We have some new newspapers that have applied for the program and think they are eligible, but we will have to see whether they actually will be.

Next, in our recommendations to the department, we suggested a target of approximately 5% of the total budget envelope for official language minority publications. We don't know what the level of funding will be yet. This will be decided once the department knows how many publications it will have to subsidize with the money at its disposal.

There are two other things to monitor. The government pledged to replace the funding that Canada Post was withdrawing from the program. I believe that this is for the next two years. The amount is $15 million per year and that is a concern for us for 2012-2013. From the viewpoint of the APF and its Quebec counterpart, as well as the entire publishing industry in Canada, this will be a concern for us.

There are two other interesting initiatives in the Canada Periodical Fund. One is called Collective Initiative and the other, Business Innovation. We do not yet know the details of the program, so I cannot really comment on the subject, but what I can say is that Collective Initiative is a fund that has been available to the APF for some years now. It has been very useful in starting up development projects for the French-language press. However, the details have not yet been made public.

I am now going to address something that is a growing concern for us, that is, Internet advertising. What we know is that, over the years, the Official Languages Act has been interpreted and applied to ensure that francophones in official language minority communities receive federal messages and advertising in the newspapers published in their language. However, with Internet advertising, things are not so clear.

The reports I have seen indicate that this advertising does not appear on the websites of community media. It does appear on search engines such as Google and Yahoo. So they simply bypass the websites of newspapers and probably also those of community radio stations. This is something that Treasury Board and the Department of Public Works should look at because this could have a very negative impact on our media. Like the rest of the country, we are obliged to make the transition to the Web. Obviously, the presence of federal advertising is essential to the development of this media.

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair? Two minutes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You still have four minutes if you wish to use them, Mr. Potié.

[Francis Potié]

Fine.

Lastly, another project we're working on and that we find very important for the development of the APF and our Quebec anglophone counterpart concerns an on-going survey and marketing structure. We call it official language minority media performance evaluation. We have been working on it for some years now.

We have a financial commitment from the Official Languages Support Programs Branch and the Canada Magazine Fund, which ends on March 31.

For some time now, we have been working under the economic development initiative of Industry Canada. The progress is slow and it is difficult to obtain information on the procedure to follow to have access to this funding. It is complex and unclear. As far as I know, there are no mechanisms in place. There is a Canada-wide budget, but no forms or procedures to access it. This is something we are working on. We think that it will have an impact on the development and financial viability of our respective media, but we need other departments to get involved besides Canadian Heritage.

I will close with the following. As concerns the Canada Periodical Fund, we are encouraged by the review that has taken place, but we have yet to see what will result from this in tangible terms. Internet advertising is a growing concern and it is important that Industry Canada get involved in our project with the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada and the QCNA.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Very good. Thank you, Mr. Potié.

Mr. Côté, the floor is yours.

[François Côté, Secretary General, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada]

Good morning, and thank you for having invited us to appear today.

Active nationally since 1991, the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada has 31 active members in 9 provinces and 2 territories. We have 25 radio stations on the air and 6 that are being set up. In the current context, it is more important than ever that the Government of Canada implement concrete measures to provide recurring financial support to social economy businesses, especially community and campus radio stations, which play a vital role in the development and survival of numerous Canadian communities.

The positive impact of community radio stations on communities is such that it would be false to claim that the government should not be focusing thereon.

First, let me point out that campus and community radio stations play an important role in creating several hundred jobs across Canada.

In addition, by ensuring local advertisers widespread promotion of their activities, goods and services, community radio stations help curb the erosion of the economy and stop the flight of capital abroad.

Clearly, campus and community radio stations in Canada are not only major players in the economy of their respective regions, but also genuine talent incubators that, each year, spawn new careers in the communications sector.

[Simon Forgues, Development and Communications Officer, Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada]

In the definition of the CRTC, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission, it is clearly stated that a community radio station “must be owned and controlled by a not-for-profit organization which provides for membership, management, operation and programming primarily by members of the community at large.” So it goes without saying.

This is certainly one of the main reasons why so many Canadians volunteer for the stations so actively. I think you will be surprised at the figures we will be presenting to you later on.

However, it is not easy for small organizations like ours to provide both training and supervision of our volunteer and human resources without adequate and permanent funding, which unfortunately is not forthcoming right now. Our radios, much more than other stations, are the ones that foster the emergence of new musical and local talents by showcasing their works. Not one commercial radio station in Canada can boast that it broadcasts emerging talents the way campus and community radio stations do. Just listen to any private radio station and you will see that I am right.

Not all of our radio stations are the cornerstones of the social and community activity in their areas, because they do not all share the same markets or realities, but the fact remains that they must all make considerable and sometimes superhuman efforts to fulfil their broadcasting mandate which seeks to be both open and inclusive. If we are to offer effective coverage of local, community and social aspects, something that neither CBC/Radio-Canada nor private radio stations can or want to do, then it is essential that community and campus radio stations receive funding accordingly.

Regardless of what many people think and say, and despite all the good will of the public and private sectors—far be it from me to criticize them—they are not the ones who advertise social and community events or publicize vaccination clinics or children's services. This often falls to community media, and they need to continue to do so now and in the future.

[François Côté]

As concerns new media, in the space of less than a decade, cell phones with Internet access, embedded cameras, Wi-Fi connections and other technologies have become more and more common, and this has changed the communications and media sector in ways we never could have imagined. There is also satellite broadcasting, which has also contributed to the decline in the listening audience of over-the-air radio stations by becoming available even in our vehicles and our homes.

In the current context of globalization where major broadcasting players such as Astral and Standard, among others, are merging their activities in order to diversify their supply of products and compete with the phenomenal rise of new media, community radio stations, especially those in official language minority communities, are struggling to prevent the decline of their listening audience and must also fight pitched battles with the Internet, a medium which knows no boundaries or clear rules.

We feel it is important to point out that Canadians' interest in new media is largely due to the fact that it is interactive. Public participation in content is at the very heart of our radio stations' missions. We are also concerned by the operating expenses, and the cost of human resource training and research and development associated with these changes, and about the difficulty of raising enough revenue to offset the losses due to the change in strategy arising from the increased emphasis on new media.

Community and campus radio stations have less than $75,000 per year to cover their broadcasting costs. Many stations do not have enough funding to purchase studio supplies, regularly upgrade programming and production software, provide adequate supervision to volunteers or broadcast quality local and regional news programs. And yet this is part of our mission.

Community and campus radio stations can count on an average of only $300,000 per year to carry out their mission. We will give you more detailed figures a little later. This is an average, but it breaks down to less than $35 per hour of programming. This budget, which represents 11.5% of the average income of commercial FM radio stations, does not allow us to offer enough quality programming, support participation or carry out our mandate in terms of diverse viewpoints, the broadcasting of non-commercial cultural content or local content.

[Simon Forgues]

Ladies and gentlemen, it is clear that the current funding model has limits. First, fundraising campaigns have, to all intents and purposes, no potential for growth. There is only so much money that can be raised through bingo nights, fund matching and other such types of activities. We cannot ask a community to exceed its capacity. They are already stretched to the limit by a great many other organizations. We are non-profit organizations, and there are many others in the communities where our radio stations are located.

Advertising sales are also considerably limited because our stations cover markets or programming niches that private radio stations are not interested in because they are deemed to be unprofitable. So the growth potential for this revenue is limited. And yet community radio offers a diversity of voices and programs to the public, which is why it is in the public interest. We firmly believe that it should thus have access to public funding.

The ARC du Canada, the ANREC/NCRA, that is the Association nationale des radios étudiantes et communautaires, and the Association des radiodiffuseurs communautaires du Québec, represent some 140 community and campus radio stations in Canada, with over 500 employees. I spoke earlier about our volunteers. Well, I'm not talking about 200 or 300 people who volunteer in community radio stations in Canada, I'm talking about 10,000 people. This means that the training and supervision of these volunteers falls squarely on the shoulders of our radio stations. It is for the very purpose of ensuring the development and sustainability of the third sector of radio broadcasting—because there are three sectors: public, private and community, as acknowledged by the CRTC—that these three associations created the Community Radio Fund of Canada. In order to carry out their responsibilities, we estimate that our radio stations should each have access to at least $30,000 per year. So we're not asking for the moon. This would allow each station to have at least one permanent position.

[François Côté]

This is why, over the past little while, we have been working extra hard to urge the Government of Canada to make an annual investment of $4.2 million in the Community Radio Fund of Canada. To date, only Astral Media has stepped up to the plate. It contributes to two programs administered by the Community Radio Fund of Canada. The fact is that we are not even talking about $200,000 per year.

Other financial backers have also expressed their interest in contributing to the CRTC-imposed Canadian Content Development Program. However, let us not fool ourselves. Unless the Government of Canada provides recurrent funding, we fear that we will witness a worsening of the situation in our radios where the employees and volunteers will increasingly burn out.

To conclude, we are recommending that the Government of Canada allocate $4.2 million per year to the Community Radio Fund of Canada to ensure the maintenance and development of community and campus radio in Canada. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, gentlemen.

We will now begin our first round.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, I would like to thank you for coming here. My first question deals with community radio.

I am sure that you are already aware of the situation in my riding. I represent one-third of the community radio stations in New Brunswick. I am probably the MP with the largest number of community radios in the entire country. We must focus on the fact that our community radio is really the radio for the community. Indeed, they develop in small markets and—if we are focusing on the francophonie—in areas where francophones are often fewer in number. This is also the only way for a community to have its voice heard. Private radio does not see any advantage in setting up in smaller communities if there is no way to turn a profit.

As for the questions you raised, it is obvious that community radio cannot depend on fundraising to guarantee its survival forever. As you mentioned earlier, volunteers are always being asked to do fundraising in order to cover operating costs and perhaps raise the money required in order to modernize infrastructure. When I talk about infrastructure, I am not just referring to buildings, but to the equipment as well.

You talked about the Community Radio Fund of Canada, but would it be accurate to say that the volunteers are going to wind up burning out and that the voice of certain communities may disappear because of the financial problems of these radio stations?

[François Côté]

The burnout has already started. Right now, this burnout is being experienced in the western part of the country in particular, but it is slowly moving east. Yes, we will reach a point where we will no longer have any volunteers for radio. In the communities, it is often the same individuals who sit on the boards for a variety of organizations and who do the volunteer work for many groups. At one point, they are being pulled in all directions and they are unable to give their time to the community radio stations. The government must pay close attention to the funding of our radio.

You mentioned New Brunswick, where we have some of our most successful radio stations. Our two most successful radio stations are located in New Brunswick. However, for most New Brunswick radio stations, we are talking about a double-minority situation. When I say double minority, that means that they are in a minority within a minority situation. These people find it difficult to make ends meet financially. Take, for example, the case of CJPN, in Fredericton, with scarcely one employee who has to move heaven and earth in order to make ends meet at the end of the month. This is no easy task. We have the same situation in Saint John, where the station has also gone through a few problems. We need at least one resource per radio and we need one permanent employee to look after operations.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

There is a need for volunteers. However, there has to be somebody who is able to train these volunteers. If we don't have this person, we would have a free-for-all. In the long run, we could go off in all directions but without achieving any results.

If I may, I would say the following. A few years ago, during my first term, namely, when we were in power, the Standing Committee on Official Languages adopted a resolution asking the federal government to allot a certain percentage of its advertising to minority groups. That also applied to the newspapers. We wanted to ensure that the federal government would guarantee a certain percentage. I recall that members representing community radio appeared before us and told us that if they at least had a guarantee that they would obtain this percentage, that would provide them with a source of funding.

You talked about a $4.2 million amount. If community radio and francophone media were guaranteed this percentage, that would be beneficial and it would enable you to eliminate certain obligations, such as fundraising activities and other similar events. So people could focus on their work.

[Simon Forgues]

There is an advantage for the government when community radio is established in the communities. When we announce job vacancies that have been advertised by the local employment insurance office, the government stands to gain because someone may eventually find a job and pack a lunch to go to work every morning. When we announce early childhood education or vaccination clinics, and our radios do not bill the local organizations, we are already doing work for the government. Indeed, if we were to benefit more from this advertising support, it would be profitable.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

To conclude, I would like to say something more about available job offers. In my region, private companies and private radio stations now charge companies for advertising job vacancies whereas the community radio stations continue to provide this service free of charge. This service enables the population to be aware of job opportunities and there is no obligation to pay in order to find out if there are any available jobs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We will now give the floor to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First of all, Mr. Chair, I would like to say hello to Chantale, who is now working for the Office of the Official Languages Commissioner. She is Mr. Godin's former colleague. I just wanted to say hello to her.

I would also like to welcome Ms. Gazaille, Mr. Potié, Mr. Côté and Mr. Forgues, and I say hats off to you for the work you do in French-language communities in Canada. You are part of an important network, namely the social and community fabric..., you work against assimilation and for the development of communities.

Having lived in Saskatchewan and having also worked in community radio, I understand how important the community aspect is. Indeed, without the support of the APF, the Association de la presse francophone, and ARC, the Association des radios communautaires, communities would not hear their own voices in this large province where they live. Since the majority of Canada's population is anglophone, these communities are not covered by the media. I would therefore like to underscore the significant contribution that you make.

I am also aware of the fact that essentially, this work is done by volunteers. Does Radio-Huronie still exist in Penetanguishene? I know that it was facing difficulties at one point. It is up to volunteers to look after all of the broadcasting, from A to Z. And as for the newspapers, the provincial correspondents—L'Eau vive comes to mind—who often come from all regions of Saskatchewan, are not paid, but must, through their work, reflect the community. It is extremely important that the federal government be aware of that. I know that it is aware, but it must recognize the importance of this work. We are talking about the social fabric. It is what reflects the communities... enables them to see themselves in this great progression... to see all of the reality of their regions.

I would like to ask all colleagues some questions about the interdepartmental aspect, with respect to the resources and support that it is possible to obtain from the federal government. Because we are at the federal level, here. I know that you are also working with provincial, local and municipal authorities, that you have even established relationships amongst yourselves and undertake joint initiatives for your mutual benefit.

Could you talk to us about the interdepartmental side, about other federal departments? You mentioned Industry Canada earlier; Canadian Heritage is not the only department that must reflect official language communities. There is part VII of the Official Languages Act which says that communities must be consulted in order to promote their development.

I will turn the floor over to you. Perhaps, Mr. Potié, Ms. Gazaille and Mr. Côté, you could tell us about the support you need from us in this matter.

[Francis Potié]

We call on the various departments as often as we can. Obviously, there is the difficulty that arises from the fact that these are always special projects. Special projects do have some advantages, but there is also a disadvantage: not all development activities begin on April 1 and finish by March 31, requiring no further attention.

There is one thing that we would like to see become a thing of the past as far as the interdepartmental aspect is concerned. Sometimes, we are told by the other departments to contact Canadian Heritage for assistance since our content is francophone, and this is not the type of thing that they do. For example, this is more or less the response we were getting at one point with respect to the economic development initiative. We feel that this response runs completely counter to part VII of the Official Languages Act and every government directive that has been issued since the early 1980s, unless I am mistaken.

It is important that the francophone press and all of our organizations not be tied strictly to an official languages program and that we be integrated into other support programs.

[François Côté]

As far as we are concerned, the other departments always tell us that they do not have anything set aside for radio, that there are no existing programs for radio and that we do not fit in anywhere but that Canadian Heritage has an Official Languages Support Program, the OLSP. We are always referred to the OLSP.

We have not been able to accomplish very much with respect to the interdepartmental aspect. At one point, we had to deal with Industry Canada with respect to computer purchases and our website at the beginning, but after that, the program disappeared. Since then, it has been fairly difficult from the interdepartmental point of view. We are always turned away because we represent minority official language media. It is always suggested that we go to Canadian Heritage.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

We will continue with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Good morning to you all. I apologize for being late, but the plane did not travel very fast from Bathurst to Ottawa, this morning. That is why I am late.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Did you make a parachute jump?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I parachuted.

Mr. Potié, I missed the beginning of your presentation on funding and on whether or not you are satisfied that this money will be or already is allocated.

[Francis Potié]

Do you want me to respond?