Official Languages Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Greg Rickford, Conservative, Kenora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to start my questions by first making a brief comment. I agree, and I'm also disappointed with the mark you got because there are three essential points that must be understood in the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. As you said, he has a "higher standard".

In addition, the methodology for preparing the report has changed. The emphasis is now on execution and results. This is the first time, according to what the commissioner said in his testimony, that this methodology has been used. I'm not surprised that it changes the results.

You also said in your testimony, with a certain degree of fear and hesitation, that "acquiring another language isn't just the employer's responsibility, but also that of the person concerned," that it isn't just a one-way street. I know that it isn't an easy task for adults, but public servants who have worked for me and who I have seen succeed are the ones who invested a lot in training. There is an enormous variable; there are a number of reasons. Perhaps they lack confidence—as I do from time to time—or perhaps, as public servants, they're intimidated by the parliamentary system, I suppose.

What can we do to achieve our objectives—as I asked in the first round—to remove these barriers, not just intellectually, but in practice as well?

[Maria Barrados]

I can start answering and ask Mr. Lemaire to add some points as of official languages champion. This is obviously a matter of leadership in the public service. It's not just a matter of Graham Fraser's leadership, but that of everyone's. We have a few deputy ministers who are really committed and anglophones who have made efforts, who have really demonstrated leadership in learning both languages and who want to become bilingual.

At the PSC, for example, we don't translate memos that come to me or that are sent to the executive committee, but as the report stated, some translations are made from time to time. That doesn't displease me because people have a right to write in the language of their choice. People know that I can make corrections, edit. However, I'm not good enough in French to do it. In French, I ask someone to make the corrections, but I can start doing them myself in English. It's a lot easier for people to give me documents in French because I don't do the corrections in the same way.

Mr. Lemaire, do you want to continue?

[Donald Lemaire]

I never do that deliberately.

[Maria Barrados]

Oh, oh!

[Donald Lemaire]

Perhaps I'm going to state a platitude, but I believe that the work of the Commissioner of Official Languages is very important, indeed essential, in order to continue improving the situation. I believe the only solution is to persevere, to go on and never let go. We would all like to get As all the time, but we know that's not possible. However, this report is a very good effort that will encourage us to be more attentive and vigilant and to continue trying to improve matters.

We will never be able to take it for granted that we have achieved the objective in a determinate way because there is always a risk of backsliding. That's why my recommendation is that we continue to persevere, to conduct close follow-up, to be accountable for our results and to strive to continue improving the situation. There's no magic wand, unfortunately. It's always a challenge to be in a minority situation, whether you're in the west, in eastern Ontario, in the north, or in Quebec, around Sherbrooke. It's as simple as that, but that's important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Godin, go ahead, please.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

Ms. Barrados, do you sit on the committees, with the deputy ministers?

[Maria Barrados]

I sit on a few committees of deputy ministers, not all.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do they talk about official languages on those committees?

[Maria Barrados]

Little French is used on those committees. Most of the time, the discussions are in English, but on the Treasury Board committee, which is chaired by Michelle d'Auray, we often have discussions in French.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I wasn't asking you whether you spoke English or French at the meetings; I wanted to know whether you talked about official languages problems?

[Maria Barrados]

Oh, pardon me, I misunderstood. Mr. Fraser made a presentation to the deputy ministers before tabling his report, and it was well received.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I was talking about you.

[Maria Barrados]

What do you mean?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

And you, do you talk about the problem in the public service?

[Maria Barrados]

I talk about it all the time.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You say it takes two years to become bilingual. Some people are entitled to a four-year extension. How do you explain why some employees pass the test and subsequently don't speak French? Where's the follow-up? Why make so much effort for a person to learn a language in two years if there's no follow-up and the person is not required to speak it?

There's something lacking somewhere. It's like taking one step forward and four steps back.

[Maria Barrados]

We have a system. At the time of a promotion or a change of position, employees have to take a new exam after five years. That's one type of motivation provided by the system.

I've been under some pressure to change that, but I don't want to. Otherwise, I don't have a lot of power apart from what's related to staffing and promotions.

Donald.

[Donald Lemaire]

It's much more a matter of the will of the person who has become bilingual. It's really the responsibility—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

—the responsibility of—

[Donald Lemaire]

—of the person.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Isn't it also the department's responsibility? It's like a welder who no longer works as a welder, a plumber who doesn't work as a plumber. We're talking about someone who has a job and who serves the public.

I don't agree with you when we talk about minorities in Canada. We aren't a minority because we have an act that provides that we have to have services in both languages. We have to stop letting ourselves pass for a minority group. We have an act that provides that services are offered in both languages; it's as simple as that. Usually, when someone violates an act, there is punishment. Here everything has been allowed for the past 40 years. We can't even get service in both languages at the Supreme Court.

[Maria Barrados]

My comments didn't concern the service to the public context. As the figures show, the public service does a good job of providing service.

Instead my comments were about the context of discussions in a department. We clearly have to provide services in both languages.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On the committees where you don't sit, you don't complain if the deputy ministers are anglophones.

[Maria Barrados]

There are more francophones. There is a greater representation of francophones on the executive. There are proportionately more francophones.