Official Languages Committee on Dec. 9th, 2010

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to discuss your bilingual meetings. I looked at the little brochure that you gave us with the address of a Web site. Is there a place where people can submit a complaint if they are not satisfied, if the suggestions are not followed?

[Col Louis Meloche]

There are two places where people can go to complain. In fact, with the Department of National Defence, there are three such places: people can address their superior in the chain of command, they can launch a complaint with Official Languages Commissioner, and we also have an internal mechanism for dealing with complaints that protects the identity of the person. Consequently, the answer to your question is yes.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Have you received any complaints about meetings that are not conducted in both languages within bilingual units?

[Col Louis Meloche]

Over the past year, I think that we might have had one.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Only one?

[Col Louis Meloche]

Yes.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Therefore, it is realistic. I am looking at your instruction handout. Under number 3, you say "remember that the presence of some unilingual participants does not prevent a bilingual meeting". Do you make sure that these unilingual persons can clearly understand what is being said at the meeting?

[Col Louis Meloche]

We have many awareness-raising sessions with managers and leaders. It is impossible for me to tell whether or not all the meetings in the Department of National Defence are conducted in compliance with the suggestions. I cannot possibly answer this question because I do not know how many meetings are being held. This is why it is important to have a committed leadership. Those who chair the meetings should be aware of their rights but above all they must be aware of their obligations.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Is there an obligation for those who chair meetings to be bilingual? Under number 4 it says "use a bilingual co-chair if necessary". Does this mean that the chair might not be able to speak both languages?

[Col Louis Meloche]

Yes, in some cases the chair is not bilingual. In some units, for example, bilingualism is not compulsory for every rank.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Let me come back to what you said earlier, namely that in the francophone unit you encourage the soldiers to address each other in their own language. It is very nice for them to speak to each other and it is very natural for them to use their own language, but if they have to deal with a supervisor, do they still have this possibility if they are in a francophone unit?

[Col Louis Meloche]

All our units have a language designation to determine their working language. For example in a francophone unit, the working language is French. If an anglophone is transferred to a francophone unit, if he has the required linguistic profile, this anglophone's working language in a francophone unit will be French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Ms. Zarac.

Without further ado, let us continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I heard what you said about the courses. When you say "bilingual courses", Mr. Meloche, do you mean courses that are in French and that can also be offered in English?

[Col Louis Meloche]

Precisely.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You understand that when I went to the University of Ottawa, I was told:

“this bilingual course will be given in English”,

I dropped that course. They had asked who spoke French in the classroom and two-thirds of the students raised their hand. Then they asked who did not speak French and that was the remaining third of the class. Thus the minority was satisfied in this case.

Thus, it is good to learn that these courses are offered in both French and in English. I wanted to be quite sure of this because I had been very disappointed with the U of Zero, excuse me, the U of Ottawa.

[A voice]

Oh, oh!

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I am sorry, I upset somebody. After all I obtained three bachelor's degrees from there, but in French.

[Col Louis Meloche]

There are some people here whose alma mater is the University of Ottawa.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, yes that is it. Nevertheless, I did obtain three bachelor's degrees from this university, let me repeat, in French.

There is another element, Mr. Meloche. You say that about 38% of the courses, if I understand correctly, are offered in French.

[Col Louis Meloche]

Yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

After a bit of personal research I believe that I have found out that the air force is the sector that needs the most work, because only 7% of the courses are being offered in French. This means that from 30 to 40 courses out of 500 are available in French, but the 460 to 470 other courses are not available in French. Is this true? Where do we stand with regard to aviation?

[Col Louis Meloche]

In the aviation sector, there is indeed work to be done, but you must understand that there is a great deal of technical material. Translating technical material is very time-consuming. However, if we compare the situation of three years ago with the situation today, with the momentum and the number of translators that we have, we are headed in the right direction.

Another element, with regard to aviation, is that the technical aspect slows things down somewhat. A technical translation, there is no denying it, takes almost twice as long as an ordinary translation. That is how things are. For instance, if we take the courses offered by the army, all the courses on combat weapons, courses for infantry, for armoured cars, artillery, all those courses, the entire range from the rank of private to the officers' ranks, are available in both official languages.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Let me continue, Mr. Meloche.

I know that this is a different subject matter, but we hear a great deal about helicopters for the Canadian army. We hear that 43 helicopters will be delivered within the coming five or seven years. Had we made headway at this rate during the Second World War, probably we would have never finished it, if we had to wait between five and seven years before obtaining fighter planes. Hence, I hope that it is not the same pattern when it comes to translating courses.

With regard to the closure of the General-Jean-V.-Allard Memorial Library, I want you to know that I too, wrote a letter of complaint to the Official Languages Commissioner. This library serves some 3,000 employees and students after all. This letter states:

Many people consider that the closure of the library in Saint-Jean is something that goes against all the efforts that are being made to give the francophone military personnel a cultural environment which, we must admit, is [already] the poor relative of the Department of National Defence.

Therefore, this closure is not a good idea. Let me continue:

Many members of the civil and military personnel have expressed their dissatisfaction to us [...]

Right now, I am sharing with you the letter that I wrote the commissioner. I am not making any of this up.

French teachers who teach French as a first language and as a second language in the language school of the Saint-Jean Garrison are upset. I also am upset to hear this. I know that Saint-Jean, in the Vallée-du-Richelieu, used to be a bastion of the patriots. If there is a nationalist environment in Quebec, that is the place, and I find it unacceptable that you should close the library or that you should cut off or even reduce access to the library, and I want you to know that.

Earlier, you answered some questions regarding this subject, but please do take this aspect into consideration.

Let me finish with the official languages commissioner's report for 2008-2009, which has some very good news on page 30. Mr. Natynchuk had written to general officers of the Canadian Forces—I will not name all the titles because you know them better than I do—and the commissioner said:

More specifically, he reminded general officers that they should not expect to be promoted if they are unable to reach the CBC level in their second language by the date specified in National Defence's Official Languages Program.

If I am not mistaken, the cut-off date was December 2010, and I hope that this still holds.

[RAdm Andrew Smith]

It still holds, but it applies to the rank of major-general and ranks above that, namely the ranks that wear two stars and more, as of December 31, 2010.