Official Languages Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Good morning, everyone. We are going to begin right away because we have a very full agenda this morning. Welcome to the fourth meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f), we are here for our study of the review of the last 40 years of the Official Languages Act.

We have the pleasure and the privilege to have as a witness the representative of the Quebec Community Groups Network. I would like to welcome the president, Mr. Robert Donnelly.

Welcome back to the committee, Mr. Donnelly. It was good to see you at the St. Patrick's parade this Saturday on the streets of Quebec City.

I see you aren't wearing your green hat this morning.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Robert Donnelly, President, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Not every day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

It suited you like a glove on that particular day.

Welcome also to Ms. Sylvia Martin-Laforge, who is the directrice générale of the organization, as well as the co-chair of the Youth Standing Committee, Ms. Nicola Johnston.

Without any further comments, I would invite you to proceed with your speech.

Thank you.

[Robert Donnelly]

Thank you, Mr. Blaney, and thank you, once again, members of the committee. Welcome, once again.

I would like to begin today by briefly summarizing our community's experience with the Official Languages Act. That's the point of the meeting. I would like then to move on to how some of these experiences have impacted the English-speaking community of Quebec, and describe some of the barriers to our collective vitality and sustainability. Finally, I would then ask the chair if I could pass over the speaker's chair to Nicola, who was already introduced as the chair of the QCGN Youth Standing Committee. And all of this in five minutes.

For the benefit of new members, please let me begin by describing the English-speaking community of Quebec in just a few words. There are a lot of myths surrounding what exactly English-speaking Quebec is. Many continue to conjure up images of wealthy, white, Christian, Westmount elite, who spend their vacations in Georgetown. The reality is that we are the most diverse of Canada's official language communities. Twenty-three percent of us belong to a visible minority, living as a minority within a minority, with all the social and economic consequences that implies. Like other official language minority communities, ours is aging and declining at an accelerated rate compared to the majority. Also, like Canada's other official language minority communities, we experience high levels of out-migration.

Another challenge for our community is the assumption that English speakers have ready access to arts and culture. However, the omnipresence of American generic electronic media does not reflect the experience of our community and cannot be counted on to tell our stories in our voice. The language arts network, ELAN, which is a QCGN member, is trying hard right now to make that point with the CRTC. Neither on CNN, on NBC, nor even on Citytv from Toronto will we see stories in our voice from Quebec.

Another challenge faced by our community is access to health and education services in English. Yes, we do have English hospitals, at least in Montreal and Quebec City, but there is a lack of English language care available in the regions, especially for the elderly members of our community, many of whom are isolated, unilingual, and without the benefit of family and community support structures.

English school boards exist and provide English language education in Quebec--we know that--but in the regions our young people do not have the same types of access or opportunities available in specialized fields of study and pursuit, and so they are drawn away from their homes to pursue other opportunities. We are, in short, a community in need of support to maintain its vitality and sustainability.

Like FCFA in its report of last November, we are critical of the 1991 Official Languages Regulations, which base services on demographic calculations rather than on the territorial principle. Canada's linguistic minority communities are in demographic decline. Rural and isolated communities are especially vulnerable. Framing section 4 in isolation, as the FCFA's report aptly points out, negates the two main purposes of the act: one, “communicating with or providing services to the public and...carrying out the work of federal institutions”; and two, supporting “the development of English and French linguistic minority communities”.

We also fully endorse the FCFA's three-Cs approach to ensuring that the intentions of the Official Languages Act are realized. The act must be understood and applied in a way that is coherent, constituent, and continuous. We would particularly like to establish the need to align the provision of English services with provincial frameworks. The official language minority community should always have the benefit of the most generous program.

The influence of the English-speaking community of Quebec on official languages processes and our inclusion in these are improving but to an extent that is still far from equal to that for the francophone minority outside Quebec. We were appalled and extremely disappointed, for example, that the recent Speech from the Throne failed to include the English-speaking community of Quebec when referring to the “road map for Canada's linguistic duality”.

The road map, of course, represents the core strategy that outlines the Government of Canada's major policy decisions regarding linguistic duality and the development of official language minority communities, so there are questions that come to mind.

How is this omission going to be understood by the bureaucrats managing the current road map and those beginning to design the replacement in 2013? Who decided to understand duality as meaning one? Last week I wrote a letter to the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages on these very questions. We are awaiting an answer.

Finally, we also endorse the FCAF's call for increasing the powers of the Commissioner of Official Languages. It is clear to the QCGN that the English-speaking community of Quebec is best served by an empowered, apolitical guardian of linguistic rights. It is a matter of record that on matters of education, employment, and immigration, the Government of Canada has negotiated bilateral agreements with the Province of Quebec, this without substantive consultation with the English-speaking community of Quebec and without any mechanisms to account for how federal funding supports our community's vitality.

In practical terms, the Government of Canada's responsibilities under section 7 of the Official Languages Act towards our community are scrubbed when federal powers are devolved or funding is provided to Quebec. An empowered Commissioner of Official Languages could play an important role in this process, especially if he or she ensured the Government of Canada met its obligation towards the English community of Quebec in the government's bilateral dealings with Quebec.

In conclusion, we strongly support the francophones in Quebec and in Canada and we understand the reasonable measures necessary to support and strengthen the French language. Our community is certainly not concerned with the health and vitality of the English language, which we expect will continue to do quite well on its own, but the English-speaking community of Quebec is indeed concerned about its vitality and long-term sustainability and identity.

The community's goal is integration, the attainment of French language skills for its youth, and the inclusion of the community in all aspects of Quebec society. A strong, integrated, bilingual, and engaged English-speaking community in Quebec is the very model of Canadian linguistic duality.

With the permission of the chair, I would now like to introduce Nicola Johnston, who, as you already know, is co-chair of our Youth Standing Committee. Ms. Johnston is a second-year graduate student at Carleton University and is completing an M.A. in public policy and administration.

Thank you, Mr. Blaney.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Please go ahead.

[Nicola Johnston, Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Thank you very much, Mr. Donnelly, for that introduction.

Good morning, Mr. Blaney.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman and ladies and gentlemen. I feel very honoured to be able to speak to you today as a young English speaker from Quebec. Thank you very much for this opportunity to testify in front of the committee today.

As Mr. Donnelly said, I am an English-speaking youth from the Eastern Townships. I believe that as English-speaking youth, we have an unique identity. We're unique because we live in a dynamic place where we have the opportunity to become bilingual and where we are surrounded by people who are French or English or both.

Because of this, we often feel that when we leave Quebec, there is something missing. We value the bilingual and bicultural home from which we came, and many of us want to stay or come home.

Like many young Quebeckers, my hope is to remain a fully engaged member of the province and of my home region, contributing to its future in every way that my talents will allow. To do so, I, like many other Quebeckers, have worked hard to achieve bilingual skills. Eighty per cent of English mother tongue Quebeckers between 15 and 45 are bilingual. In return, we expect acceptance and the space in which to preserve our English identity, and the opportunity for greater integration into the Quebec society as bilingual, bi-literate, and bicultural Quebeckers.

But the reality is that the English-speaking youth in Quebec face lower political participation and representation and higher unemployment rates compared to their francophone counterparts. We are effectively barred from the Quebec civil service, with a participation rate of 0.2%. For example, my master's degree is meant to effectively train me to work in the federal or provincial civil service, but I know that it will be a major challenge, and perhaps even an obstacle, for me to be able to serve in the public service of my own province, because I am an English speaker. In contrast, many of my classmates will return to their home provinces to work in the provincial civil service, building on a sense of identity, belonging, and ownership that is perhaps not available to me and others like me.

As well, for many, the hope of economic well-being and belonging lies elsewhere, beyond the regions in which we grew up. Ironically, our bilingualism is an asset to employers beyond Quebec. At the same time, being an English speaker puts us at an economic disadvantage at home.

For a person like me, who will graduate with two degrees, the statistical likelihood of residing in the province is low. Statistics show that the higher the education level attained, the lower the probability that graduates will stay in or return to Quebec. This further fuels population decline in rural communities, including the Eastern Townships, where I am from and where there is a considerable “missing middle”.

But on a positive note, today's youth clearly express their desire to stay in Quebec and to contribute to Quebec's society. They wish to move away from past conflicts and insecurities as they embrace bilingualism, social cohesion, and an authentic desire to put an end to the two solitudes.

We know that the rate of out-migration is slowing. The bilingual, highly educated cohort has made the effort to gain the linguistic skills needed to fully participate in Quebec's society by seeking and receiving better French language instruction and by linking to our French society. The youth of the English-speaking community of Quebec are a tremendous resource, capable not only of translating the English-speaking world but of acting as organic linguistic brokers able to bridge cultural as well as linguistic barriers.

So today we urge the Government of Canada to fulfill its obligations towards the English-speaking youth in Quebec, to engage us in a formal, meaningful, and sustained way to ensure our success, and to lead the process of demonstrating that we are a valuable and a recognized asset to Quebec and to Canada. We want to stay in Quebec, but often our chances of staying are stacked against us.

But we are more than willing and more than able citizens of Quebec, so I urge you today, for the sake of tomorrow, to help us to live in our own province and to allow us to enjoy our unique background, as well as our unique, contemporary, bicultural context. Allow us both to enjoy and to contribute to this quality of life and to this opportunity.

Thank you once again for giving me this opportunity to speak to you today. I sincerely hope that my own experience and my suggestions will prove useful to you today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thanks a lot, Ms. Johnston and Mr. Donnelly, for your testimony.

I would like to remind the members that if they want the full speech it has been provided to you in written form.

Without further delay, we will begin the first round with Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Donnelly, Madam Johnston, Madam Martin-Laforge, thank you very much for being here and for these rather thoughtful comments, which I believe deserve a lot of reflection and serious thought.

I wanted to see if I could test with you my understanding of the situation that the anglophone community in Quebec is currently living. Someone put to me recently a phrase that I thought captured it quite well, and I'd like your reaction to this. That individual said, essentially, that in Quebec the English language is not threatened, but the anglophone community is.

That sentence enabled me, I think, to understand what the anglophone community of Quebec is going through, because it allowed me to relate to it as a francophone from Ontario. I became bilingual because I wanted to participate fully in my province's affairs. I had difficulty getting services. As a youth I had to get on picket lines to get my school so I could go to school in French. Getting health services in my own language was near impossible. It was only made possible thanks to the nuns, really, and on and on.

If one tried to describe the situation of the anglophone community, through QCGN's leadership, using the phrase that in Quebec the English language is not threatened but the anglophone community is, how would you react to that?

[Robert Donnelly]

I'll just say something quickly, and then maybe Sylvia will also comment.

Mr. Bélanger, I think it's a question of what we keep saying, that community vitality is the big issue. Yes, in terms of languages, as I said in my speech, we live in the reality of North America. Everybody with cable TV and satellite has 200 or 300 English TV stations, so there's no lack in terms of language. However, when it comes to community vitality, especially in the regions--which is not to say there are no problems in Montreal as well, because there are--in terms of institutions and communities, if school populations are dwindling then services are dwindling. Schools are so important in terms of the cultural aspect. They become cultural centres of the communities. When the school numbers are dwindling, that aspect is dwindling.

When youth leave because they have to go away to study, then the problem is that so many now don't come back to their hometowns. That's what we talk about in terms of out-migration.

The last census showed that the number of new people coming into Quebec versus the number leaving seems to have equalized now, but in terms of youth there's a double factor.

So yes, it's not a question of language, but it is a question of community vitality.

Sylvia, I don't know if you want to add to that.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge, Director General, Quebec Community Groups Network]

From the perspective of youth and other questions, probably Nicola can talk to it a bit more. The renewal of the English-speaking community is a huge challenge. Because we are not a host society anymore for the attraction of new immigrants, which we understand, that puts enormous pressure put on the demography. That's coupled with very important numbers of young people who don't find a place in Quebec even though they are fully bilingual. They leave.

So it's not about language; it's about demographic renewal. It's all throughout the province, from the townships to the Gaspé, from the Magdalen Islands to Asbestos region.

We've lost communities. We've lost in Jonquière and in Alma. The volunteers just got tired. They just closed up. They just didn't see that they could make a difference in momentum in terms of the community.

So demographic decline is huge.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You still have 30 seconds.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Trente secondes? That's not enough.

I will read to you--I have only the French version, sorry--a paragraph from the Speech from the Throne, which you alluded to in your remarks, Mr. Donnelly.

“We are a bilingual country. Canada's two official languages are an integral part of our history and position us uniquely in the world.” The last sentence in the only paragraph that refers to linguistic duality is the one that surprises me. It says: “it [the government of Canada] will also continue to respect provincial jurisdiction and to restrict the use of the federal spending power.”

I don't know if you noticed that particular paragraph in the Speech from the Throne.

I see Madam Martin-Laforge nodding.

I'd like a reaction to that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We'll keep the answer for your next turn, if you wish.

We will now move on to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Good morning, everyone. Good morning, Ms. Martin-Laforge, Ms. Johnston, Mr. Donnelly.

The reason I am putting on my earpiece now and not when you were speaking is not because I was not listening to you. It is because my friend Mauril has a soft and pleasant voice, but one that is a little lower than Ms. Johnston's. I was able to hear well out of one ear but not as well out of the other. I am just using this to hear better.

Ms. Johnston, earlier you talked about education and how important it is for a community. Could you expand on that? I think that your comments were very interesting.

[Nicola Johnston]

Merci pour votre question.

As Mr. Donnelly was saying, enrolment numbers in English primary and secondary schools have been dwindling. That is a main issue. I truly believe that English schools are centres of community vitality for our communities. When enrolment dwindles, those schools can potentially close down. They're not just centres of learning, but places where there are extracurricular activities for kids. They are places where parents and kids forge lasting friendships. They are not just friendships, but also social capital. I continue to draw on the relationships I have with people from the English schools I attended, and I think that's tremendously important.

Schools are also centres of economic activity. They're very important places of employment for our communities. Many of my friends are teachers in English schools. I don't know what they would do otherwise. They would have to leave if those schools closed down. That's one important aspect to consider.

The other important aspect is that we really need greater integration into French society. When I say great integration I'm not just talking about better, more advanced French language skills, because I think there is already an attempt at that. I'm also talking about bridging some divides, so I'm talking about biculturalism as well.

I'll give you an example. I went to a regional high school and there was a French side and an English side. We referred to them as the French side and the English side because there were no attempts to harmonize activities between the schools. A very clear division happened on the playground. This is a testament to what we have referred to as the two solitudes that happen. There needs to be a concerted effort to harmonize that.

The two sides are administered by a French and an English school board, but I don't think that should be a barrier to creating further integration. As Sylvia was saying, language is not the main issue; it's also biculturalism and allowing anglophones and francophones to feel like we get each other, in so many words.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Fine.

Mr. Bélanger asked a question earlier and I think perhaps I will pick up where he left off and allow you to answer his question, Ms. Martin-Laforge.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

The question was on the devolution of federal powers to the province. In Quebec, we have certainly experienced this devolution visibly in two important areas, immigration and training.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Did you say training?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Yes, training.

I don't think I want to talk about immigration because it's a complicated piece of work for a two-minute answer. But let me tell you about the impact of employment. Right now when an English-speaking person--even though they're bilingual--is looking for a job or for something important in their life, whether it be access to health care or employment, and they want to talk to somebody who has the same understanding of them and the same background as them, there's not enough capacity in the Eastern Townships to refer kids or people to jobs because there has been a devolution. The devolution to Emploi-Québec has meant that there is a lack of employment services in English across the province . Therefore we have a high unemployment rate, which is very well connected to the fact that we can't get services in English.

One of our members of the Youth Employment Services in Montreal has a provincial mandate, but can only work in Montreal. The number of people who go there because they can't go to the other provincial employment centres because they don't feel they get adequate service in English is amazing. So that's a huge example of how, when you devolve and don't ensure that the community is well served as a result of the devolution, you affect the vitality very strongly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau. We will now continue with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That sounds like back home, but the other way round.

on the other side.

You're saying there's no question; it's not the language, it's the community. It's how you develop the community, how you bring people in, and how you get people jobs.

Well, they had a way to fix it down home: the LeBlancs became the Whites,

The Rois became Roy, the Lebruns became the Browns in order to get a job.

I mean, that's the reality of what happens back home. It's unbelievable. I'm sure you know that happens.

The question or the observation that I have, Madam Johnston, is around what you said about the.... And by the way, don't take me wrong; that's not what I want you to do. I think what happened down home was terrible. People had to change names in order to get a job. Don't take me wrong; even if they were to call me “Good” instead of Godin, don't take me wrong.

[An hon. member]

Or “God”.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, “God-in”.

I have an observation about what you said, that you see two schools, that it seems they don't want the students to get together, that it's wrong and that we should integrate. But the fact is, when that happens.... It happened down home. They had to separate the two districts--the anglophone district of the school and the French--because when they got in the yard, they were not learning both languages; everybody was speaking English only, and we were losing our French.

Right now I have a bill in the House. I'm asking the Supreme Court of Canada that when it has an appointment, that the person be bilingual--not French, not English, but bilingual. The government is voting against it. This is a fact. When a case is heard in French and the nine judges get together to talk about the case, because one of the nine judges does not speak French, the whole conversation is in English. And that's a fact. I just want to give you how I feel about it.

People are scared that's what will happen and that they will have to do that. I'm sorry to say it this way, but that's.... Anglophones sometimes say to us, “We cannot learn French because you don't give us a chance. Every time we try to speak, you switch to English and we don't have a chance to practise.” That's another fact I want to put in front of you.

When you say it's not the language, on the other hand it is the language. You're saying we cannot get a job even if we are bilingual. I want to understand this, because to me it doesn't make sense. If a person could hire somebody who is bilingual, he could give better service to the population. I'm not saying that's what people are doing; I'm saying that if someone were to hire somebody who is bilingual, when someone calls you could give better service to the population.

Why do you think it's going this way?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I would like to refer you to an article that came up at Metropolis, a conference that happened on the weekend. It was a document on “linguicism” by Richard Bourhis, a noted researcher who does a lot of international work and worked with the English-speaking community, on some of the reasons an anglophone in Quebec would not get a job.

Now, we don't want to talk about racism out loud, but.... I mean, it's not about racism, but it is about linguicism. It is the fact that the French is never quite good enough. It will never be good enough to get a job in Quebec.

We understand, and we all live.... I think you all heard us speak French.

The language of Quebec is French. The working language in Quebec is French. But, in Quebec, if you have an English accent when you speak French, only very rarely—around .02% of the time—will you be given a position of authority, in terms of employment equity or if...