Evidence of meeting #4 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was english.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
That is how it is here in Ottawa. For example, in some departments, there are deputy ministers who do not speak French at all, but there is not a single deputy minister at the federal level who speaks French but cannot speak English. Not one.
Conservative
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome to all our witnesses. It is a pleasure meeting you today.
Ms. Johnston, it is really good to see young people here who come from a Quebec where English and French can be spoken. Obviously, that is a conscious choice. I hope that we will see you back here often because I believe that young people have a lot to contribute as leaders.
I want to address very quickly something that Monsieur Godin said about the Supreme Court. I believe there is a little bit of misinformation there, because when English is spoken in the court, the conversation just doesn't go straight to English. Anyone who wants to speak French in the Supreme Court has the ability to speak whatever language they want and there is simultaneous translation.
Now, I think that's very important in the Supreme Court of Canada, because as far as I am concerned, even though we are bilingual, there are times when we don't--
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
A point of order. I would like to make a correction for the record. I never said that the language of the client was not spoken in the court. I said that this happens when the judges meet afterwards and discuss among themselves. I want my comments to be clear and I do not want words to be put in my mouth.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Fine, but that is not a point of order, Mr. Godin. That is a point of debate.
Conservative
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Just to continue on that thought, I believe it's very important that as bilingual people who were born anglophones, who try our very best to learn the French language, we remember that we live in a Canada where competencies and education also mean something. In the Supreme Court of Canada it's not about language, it's about giving the best legal representation that an accused person or a victim deserves.
In saying that, I am bilingual.
You are also bilingual, but there are times when we do not fully understand, because of an accent or the way a language is spoken in a particular region, because of the meaning of a word or an idea.
That's why it's so important that we not eliminate simultaneous translation in the Supreme Court of Canada, that we not deprive accused people and English-speaking people of the ability to have the best representation. I just wanted to correct that. I know I've used up much of my time. I hope Monsieur Godin's inaccurate point of order didn't take away from my time.
I'm interested in knowing, because I lived what you want to live, Mademoiselle Johnston. I went to a school where there was a francophone base, and they allowed the English-speaking people in my community to go to that school. We thrived. Our French is considered some of the best French in our province. Later on, we did as you've described, we separated them, and I've noticed that the French that's being spoken in my home province is not the same as what I learned. So I worry about that.
I'm curious to know, how do you live in French when you are separated like that? How do you live in French outside your school? Without theatres, without those things, what do you have available to you so you can live in French outside your school?
Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network
Do you mean what opportunities are there available to practise?
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
Cultural opportunities like theatres, etc. Do you have access to all those things to allow you, as English-speaking people, not to be pushed aside? I know that happens often, even in my own province, where if you weren't born francophone sometimes there's a tendency to be pushed aside. Do you have that problem or do you have complete access to attend theatres, etc., without being pushed aside, so that you can live in French?
Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network
You mean in French, access to these services in French?
Conservative
Shelly Glover Conservative Saint Boniface, MB
In French, because I heard a little bit of this linguicism, right? I know exactly what you mean. There are times when in my community, too, if you weren't born francophone you're pushed aside. I want to know, are you accepted when you go to the French theatres? Do you feel this tension that exists, like in your school?
Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network
I think that's a difficult question to answer.
I would say that anglophone people try the best we can to be able to participate in those kinds of available services. For instance, in the town I come from, we have to go a little further afield to access those. I would say they're not readily accessible in the area I come from.
I don't know, do you want to take that one on, Sylvia?
President, Quebec Community Groups Network
Yes, I could answer that.
We said in our speech that it's not a question of language. Obviously, language is a factor. Language is always going to be a factor. But feeling at home in your community is not going to be measured, for us, in terms of community vitality in our English communities across Quebec, on how much integration there is in the francophone sector. When it comes to arts and culture, we all go to English movies and French movies. We go to hear French singers and English singers. It's natural to do that in Montreal and in the rest of Quebec.
When talking about the school situation in terms of community vitality, in an English school with a very strong francophone population, the kids are going there as francophones who want to improve their English, but they're not looking to integrate into the English community. When it comes down to after that, when they look for jobs, the reality is that a francophone who has entered an English school and reached a middle level of bilingualism in English is always going to get the job, rather than the anglophone who has reached a middle level with French. That's still the majority language of work, and so forth.
So that's one of the challenges that we face. That's why our youth, for the last year, have been telling us--this is something that is not only a problem in the rural areas but in Montreal as well--that we need to improve the teaching of French in the English schools for the English students.
The good thing is that we get a good population of francophones in the schools and there's already a francophone environment. There's a lot of bilingualism. In terms of rising to a higher level of bilingualism, in our case, meaning French for the English students, we'll help them to get jobs where they live and increase the chances that they'll stay there.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, Ms. Glover.
Ms. Johnston was speaking of the importance of school in the community, and not only for academics. A good example is the St. Patrick's parade in Quebec City, which first occurred 60 years ago; it started St. Patrick's school in Quebec City.
We'll now enter our second round, the second and last round of the first part of this meeting.
I would like Ms. Zarac to get us started.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to go back to Ms. Johnston. You talked about jobs in the public service. The English represent 8.2% of the population and yet only 0.08% are in the public service, and most of those people are bilingual.
We had some people from the public service at this committee. They said bilingualism isn't a criterion for hiring people. I would like to have your comments on that. Shouldn't it be a basic criterion for a job?
Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network
Can you repeat the last segment of that question? I'm sorry, I didn't hear it.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
We had the public service here at the committee. They said that when they're hiring people, it's not always a criterion to be bilingual. Shouldn't it be a criterion in Canada when we have two languages? What do you think about it not being a criterion for a job?
Co-Chair, Youth Standing Committee, Quebec Community Groups Network
I think it's essential to be able to perform bilingually in the federal public service, but I certainly think that as an anglophone going in with a bilingual background, you're a much bigger asset. For instance, I did a co-op placement with the federal public service last summer. I'm fairly certain I was hired in large part because I had a bilingual background that my English-speaking cohorts at Carleton University didn't have. That's in the federal public service.
In the provincial public service, it's my understanding that it would be more difficult for me. Even though I have some level of bilingualism, it's certainly not adequate enough to get me a job in the provincial public service. To me, that's unfortunate, because I do want to return home. I do want to live in Quebec. I do want to participate.
I certainly hope that it won't be the case, and that I will be able to return, but it's certainly an impediment.
Liberal
Lise Zarac Liberal LaSalle—Émard, QC
Thank you.
Mr. Donnelly, you said that you were somewhat disappointed there was no mention in the throne speech of what would be done for anglophones. This government brags about consulting Canadians. I was quite surprised when you mentioned that when the federal and provincial governments met for discussions, you were not part of the discussions, and yet you represent 32 associations.
I'd like to give you the opportunity to talk about what your recommendations would have been had they consulted you.