Official Languages Committee on March 23rd, 2010

[Robert Donnelly]

In terms of the road map?

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Yes.

[Robert Donnelly]

Obviously, if you're not at the table, you're not a serious part of the discussions.

When the non-mention--if I can use that term--in the throne speech of us officially as being one of the two official minority languages communities.... I'm not afraid to say that I'm naive enough to say to my DG, when I found out about it, that, well, maybe it's just a slip; maybe they're so used to saying francophone communities that maybe for once.... But she told me very clearly that nothing in the throne speech is a slip. Everything is there for a reason.

So when we see this strong mention of the support for francophone minorities outside Quebec and how that's going to be a priority, and no mention whatsoever of us, then we think, as the discussions continue....

I mentioned a little bit about ELAN, our English Language Arts Network. We at the QCGN, over the space of the last 12 months, have invested over $60,000 of manpower and money in developing an arts culture and heritage proposal for using the road map funding. For a whole year we've been getting signals that it's not quite this or we have to change that and they're thinking about it.

Now when you see something like this and you say if we're not even sure that we exist in the throne speech, what kind of signal does that send to a ministry that is administering that money and deciding how and where it's going to be spent? It becomes very frustrating.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

That is all...

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Zarac.

We will now continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

There is a phenomenon that exists not only in Quebec and Canada but everywhere. Young people go to larger centres to study, if they are not already there. This is about rural areas versus urban areas, or about areas that are further away from urban centres and about the problems in going back to where one comes from, for all kinds of good reasons. We have all experienced that. It was my experience.

This is not simply an issue of being anglophone or francophone, it is an issue of the vitality of communities. I think what I am hearing this morning is a cry from the heart. This goes beyond language. It is an issue of identity.

Would a possible solution be, for example, to offer young people who are doing post-secondary studies a tax credit, for example, as an incentive to go back where they come from? Do you have any suggestions along those lines?

[Nicola Johnston]

I believe incentives like that are very important, actually. I would just say that, yes, those are the kind of incentives that would be needed to bring people back to their communities.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Good.

We have introduced a bill on that topic and it is still moving forward.

It is a choice to go back to one's community. Closing down regions is not a solution. Unfortunately, the message is sometimes mixed, because there are no incentives. As a society, that is a job we have to do.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Mr. Nadeau, may I add something?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I would like to tell the committee that there is a great program in Quebec called “Place aux jeunes”. It is a provincial program that encourages young people to go back to their communities. Rachel Garber, the Director General of the Townshippers Association, managed to implement the program in the townships, as a matter of fact. However, the program is a provincial one. Do you understand? For anglophones, there is a problem because of representation, the number of young people, etc.

When programs that fall under provincial jurisdiction are created at the federal level, we have problems because we cannot get our community included in the program that has been transferred to the province. You have to understand clearly that the province of Quebec grants rights to anglophones, but, in Quebec, anglophone rights are individual rights. So when the government transfers any program, Quebec will consider the anglophones,

But it's not a commitment to the vitality of the community, so I would ask you to consider that very, very significantly. We're talking about services. We're talking about services to individuals. We're not talking about the vitality of the community, because it doesn't fit in the provincial framework of Quebec.

The federal government and federal powers can do a lot of different things, but if it is not understood that in Quebec it is not taken in the same spirit around community, you are throwing good money after bad for the English-speaking community.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau. We will now move on to Mrs. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just want to finish off what we were talking about before, because I think this discussion about the minority anglophone community or English-speaking community in Quebec is very important. Our government absolutely supports the need to support that community. It has been said many times, not only by the Minister of Official Languages, but by me and many of the members, that this is a necessity: that we must support the English-speaking minority community in Quebec, as we do the francophone minority communities in other places.

I want to ask you very clearly, what do you think of the bill on the judges that demands that all Supreme Court judges be completely and fluently bilingual, to the point where simultaneous translation is not provided?

[Robert Donnelly]

When the bill was first announced, we took the issue to our board and supported that approach in principle, except that there has to be an implementation phase, and there are different ways of doing that. You can get a judge who comes in at 50% bilingual. They can be brought up within a period of six months. Or you can make that a binding factor even before the judge is named. That's what's not really clear, but the principle is something that we supported.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

We have said as a government that the principle is a good principle. The problem is that we don't have the ability to hire judges at that rate across the entire country. It would put several provinces in a position where they do not have a large enough pool.

Also, Madam Laforge, I'm going to use you as an example.

Madam Laforge was speaking earlier and couldn't remember a French word. Without this simultaneous translation, judges will miss because of accents, because of capacity to understand different languages, and that is our fear. For those who have the huge competencies in law that we need in the Supreme Court, we do not want to prejudice, for them to not be considered, because, again, competency should mean something.

There are other bills, of course, that focus on some of these things. I'm sure you will be consulted at some point or another on many of them. I welcome your input at any time. My office is always open. We've had a very good working relationship and I look forward to your input on many of those things.

Again, I am very interested in your community, Mademoiselle Johnston. Being a youth who's afraid you won't be able to work in your community is disturbing, because you are what my community considers to be what we strive for. You are a very high-level bilingual person, and it's bothersome to hear that you don't think you can get a job there.

We did a study. Every year in the public service, 5,000 jobs for bilinguals cannot be filled. You and your community could help us fill those positions. But to hear that you don't think you'll be able to fill them because in your province you're never quite French enough...? How do we fix that?

I don't think a tax credit to help you finish your school is going to address the sentiment expressed by Madam Laforge and yourself that you're never French enough. Do you honestly think that a tax credit is going to change the thinking amongst the people who are hiring, as you've expressed, and who don't choose English-speaking people first as a rule because, in your words, they're not quite French enough?

[Robert Donnelly]

It's not the answer, but it's part of the puzzle. There could be financial incentives for students to help them come back. We have seen in the Gaspé region very interesting and proactive measures involving getting students from the community to come back.

I used the term “out-migration” in my speech. When students move from Gaspé, Îles-de-la-Madeleine, and Baie-Comeau to Montreal to study because they can't get the programs in English where they live, those are important people to have come back. Now communities are finding proactive and interesting measures to try to encourage that to happen, measures that involve getting them back.

Secondly, in terms of the language—I'll say it again—for the last two years, one of the big things our youth have been telling us time and time again is that we need to improve the level of French being taught to English students in English schools and that will help.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

We'll now conclude the second round, with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me begin with a clarification. Mrs. Glover says that had she lost some of her time because I interrupted the discussion on a point of order. When that happens, the timer stops, so she did not lose any of her time.

I also want to say that Mrs. Glover's statements are terrible. She says that the bill will eliminate translation at the Supreme Court. Not on your life! That was never the intention of the bill. It is not in the bill. She is given misleading information. She is using scare tactics on Canadians.

It is unfortunate that the Conservative government is not willing to support the bill. It still does not recognize bilingualism in Canada and it does not acknowledge the fact that services have to be provided in both languages.

I am glad that Mr. Donnelly supports the bill in principle. The bill can therefore be drafted in a way that supports both communities.

This shows a lack of respect for the anglophone community. It is as if judges and lawyers were not intelligent enough to learn French. That is an insult to the anglophone community. It is terrible and unacceptable, but I am going to set that aside for now.

With respect to Speech from the Throne, Mr. Donnelly, you say that you do not see the anglophone community in it. I can understand that. Furthermore, if we look beyond the Speech from the Throne, there is the budget. Not only are anglophones not in there, but neither are francophones. There is nothing in the budget. A Speech from the Throne and a vision without any money will not get us very far. Do you agree?

[Robert Donnelly]

Yes, but at least you see yourself in the Speech from the Throne.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Fine words and no action, it is not much better.

[Robert Donnelly]

That is true.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Would you agree about the fine words but no action, as was the case for the Olympics Games, that were supposed to be bilingual? From a cultural viewpoint, the opening ceremony was not bilingual. We can congratulate the organizers on the competitions, but the opening ceremony was not impressive.

[Robert Donnelly]

Implementation budgets are always important.