Evidence of meeting #41 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was languages.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, but your time is already up, Mrs. Zarac.
We will now go to Mr. Nadeau.
9:05 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Good afternoon, gentlemen.
Mr. Head, you are assistant commissioner, in this case, an executive with Correctional Service of Canada. Do you have a CBC linguistic profile?
9:05 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
You said that 32 senior public servants no longer meet the bilingual requirements—I imagine it's a CBC or required linguistic profile—and that they must go back and take courses to become bilingual again. I have a lot of difficulty understanding that. Where I come from, we learn French and pick up English. I don't understand how people who have worked for a long time in the public service, regardless of the department, agency or Crown corporation, get a bilingual rating, then lose it and have to get it again. It's not like losing a scarf and having to go and buy another one. Explain this to me. I don't understand it.
9:05 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Part of it is particularly in the regions, when individuals are occupying positions that have been deemed or identified as being bilingual. They may not necessarily be using their second language on a regular basis in order to keep it up. That's just partly because of demand—for example, individuals in the prairie region or the Pacific region. When that occurs, the five-year period for assessing them goes by. When it's time to do the re-assessment, it may be determined that they need a month to be refreshed so that they can, for example, pass the oral exam, or they may just need some refreshing in the writing skills so that they can pass that exam.
I just want to correct the number. When I mentioned that there were 31 individuals who did not meet the language requirements, that's all staff, not just the senior staff. So it's all staff at all levels. It was seven at the executive level.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
There are prison services almost everywhere in Canada. If I understand correctly, if a member of your staff is working in a region where French is spoken, so in Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick or another region designated under the Official Languages Act, and must leave Prince Albert to move north of Montreal, for example, he will have to take this course again once he gets there. Is this person required to be bilingual before obtaining a senior executive position?
9:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
Sorry, sir. The expectation is that they would meet the language profile before they go into that new position transfer. As you may be aware, the language grades last for five years. They have a five-year shelf life, and if individuals are within that five-year period and there is no other indication of issues or concerns, then they're deemed to meet the language profile.
We do make efforts for people to keep their language refreshed at times. For example, at our national headquarters in Ottawa, there will be brown bag lunches that are offered in the second language for people so they can keep practising.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
On a different topic, Mr. Head, there's something that really jumped out at me in the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages. It's on page 27 of the French version and involves employees being able to write to their supervisors in their own language. At CSC, 36% of Francophones don't feel comfortable writing something to their supervisors in French, even though they're entitled to. I know that this is looked down upon in other departments. The documents have to be sent to translation before they are given to senior executives. Sometimes the translation doesn't reflect the meaning of the original. What do you do to ensure that a Francophone or an individual who wants to write in French can do so without being reprimanded or humiliated? That includes everything from emails to more serious, more substantial reports.
9:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
That is a very good question. We have, as part of our approach to addressing the issues that have been identified in the report, reminded supervisors and managers of their obligations and their obligations to staff who chose to correspond with them in their language of choice. We have reinforced that. We have identified some gaps that we need to address in terms of helping prepare people to be able to respond. One of the things, as an example, that we're encouraging people to do is to show some leadership. For example, when staff write directly to me—and line staff do on occasion—I always respond to them relatively immediately in the language in which they have written to me.
9:10 a.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Do you understand that the idea is to be able to write the message yourself? I know what I'd like the answer to be, but people need to know that they won't be looked down on and that it won't put their career in jeopardy. They might be afraid that not writing everything in English won't help them "because Canada is in English" there.
9:10 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
C'est vrai, monsieur. This is one of the things again that we're reinforcing with the managers--that the employees have that right--and as well reinforcing with the employees that they have the right to choose the language they wish to correspond or engage their supervisors or managers in. We know that this is a gap, it was pointed out in the report card, and we are putting effort in there to remind everybody of their obligations, as well as their rights.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank our witnesses.
You've almost set a record. You got D, D, D, E and a B. Surely, the Commissioner of Official Languages is making this public. You mustn't be too thrilled that it's going to be public.
9:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
To be honest, I'm not thrilled at all. I would say--and I'm not going to be defensive. As I've indicated, I'm not going to contest his results. Part of the grading is a result of changing the cut-off scores for the lettered grade.
I'm less concerned in terms of the letter grade as to the actual content that the official languages commissioner has pointed out. So absolutely I'm not satisfied with the result, regardless of what letter you place on it. We have some work to do. We've identified a plan to move forward and to respond to the deficiencies.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
When we go to school, we can write tests and give answers to test questions, but a D gets us nowhere.
9:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I have no disagreement with you, and as I--
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
You reminded your supervisors and the people there of their obligations. If you got a D, that means there wasn't only one case. The commissioner's report indicates that the performance is not good. You said that you reminded your supervisors. Usually, when a supervisor does not carry out his or her responsibilities, action is taken. But nothing has been done, and it's continued for all these years.
I'll tell you something. A number of years ago, I visited a few prisons with the former solicitor general, Andy Scott. People were already complaining about this at the time. I went to Renous. The people were complaining. They couldn't keep anything in French on the bulletin board. It was pulled off and removed. What are you going to do with that?
How many prisons for women are there in the Atlantic Region?
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
There's only one. Is it totally bilingual, very bilingual and does it respect bilingualism? Is it still in Nova Scotia?
9:15 a.m.
Commissioner, Correctional Service of Canada
I can get you the exact numbers of how many positions are in there. It's not fully bilingual.
9:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I know about a francophone from Tracadie-Sheila who doesn't speak a word of English. She filed a complaint because she was mistreated for not speaking English. The service she received was pitiful. Lawyers from Nova Scotia told me about the situation. Is that acceptable? Can we do anything we like because a person goes to prison? Is it normal to take away all a person's rights, especially those ones? This didn't just happen yesterday, either, but three or four years ago. The commissioner only just did his review and you got a D. There's a problem in your department. How do you plan to rectify it?