Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2010

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They're not following it.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

When you get the numbers of complaints that we've seen, there's obviously justifiable concern that they aren't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mrs. Boucher, the floor is yours.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, Minister, and good morning to all our guests. It is a pleasure to meet with you this morning.

As you are aware, a lot of things have been said about Air Canada Jazz. Our friend, Mr. Godin, has been constantly talking about the issue, as has Mr. D'Amours.

Mr. Baird, what do you think about the comments that have been made? Air Canada officials appeared before us last week. You spoke about new legislation, as have all members here. The people at Air Canada told us that they did not see the need for new legislation. We have already introduced a new bill and thought that it was a matter of considerable importance. What are your views on that statement?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I must say that, if major private corporations had the choice, they would not want to have more regulations and laws affecting their business interests. Air Canada is not alone in that position. Today, ACE Aviation Inc. is not subject to the law, and that clearly must be changed. It should also be pointed out that it does currently have obligations regarding private contractors. According to the law, it is responsible for their activities. That is a fact.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Furthermore, do you think that the audit by the official languages commissioner of Air Canada's services will help the air carrier improve its ability to comply with the requirements of the Air Canada Public Participation Act and Official Languages Act?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I certainly welcome the commissioner's indication that he's going to conduct a review of this. I think that's important.

I think, and obviously I've said, in some shape there needs to be strengthening of the law by amending the legislation. If we're concerned that they're not following the legislation as closely as possible or are not making their best efforts to follow the legislation, then simply strengthening the legislation, if they're following what's there today, won't necessarily be the complete answer.

When I met with the Commissioner of Official Languages, one of the officials used the phrase “at the end of the day”, and I guess that's what I'm interested in. At the end of the day, what can we do as oversight, whether it's you as committee, whether it's me as a minister? What can we do in oversight to ensure that, at the end of the day, francophones in this country can get the services they have every right to expect?

It concerns me when you hear Mr. Godin talk about a flight between Montreal and Bathurst...obviously the biggest francophone population in North America is in Montreal, and in northern New Brunswick, I believe, the francophone majority—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's 80%.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

It's 80%. I don't know about the city of Bathurst, but I know the region would be overwhelmingly francophone. That obviously is a fundamental concern if that's the regular experience. No one is perfect, everyone will make mistakes, but if that's a regular occurrence, that's not acceptable.

Air Canada has obligations today, without changing the legislation. We can put more teeth in the legislation, we can expand the legislation, but the legislation in its more minimal form isn't been followed, and that should be a first concern.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Boucher.

We will now begin our second round of questions with Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, thank you, and thank you to the people who came with you this morning.

It appears to be very difficult to amend the act. However, your government is a champion when it comes to quickly amending legislation so it can be included in the Budget Implementation Act. The official languages situation is very important. You say that your government supports official languages, but when the time comes to act, we don't really see any results.

You said two things. First, you distinguished between complaints made against Air Canada and those made against Jazz. It is surprising that your officials did not tell you that on Tuesday of this week, Air Canada representatives showed us a chart which clearly indicated the differences between complaints made against Air Canada's airline services and those made against Jazz. We have the results for 2008, 2009 and 2010, and we even asked the airline to provide us with the results from the beginning of 2000. So it is difficult to understand why you cannot bring forward a bill. I think it's high time we looked at all of these elements.

Further, it seems so hard to make corporate changes. Perhaps I could ask the committee's analysts to explain to you what the situation was before the last bill was passed, and what it is like today. You should have this information to help you prepare a bill in the coming weeks. You mentioned these two things. You don't have the data on the number of complaints made against Air Canada and Jazz. So we will give you that information. If it is necessary, we will show you how the company is different today compared to what it was like before. I am convinced that we will shortly be able to provide you with the second element you need to table your bill. You said you would have to talk about it to your parliamentary leader in the House. However, I think we can provide you with the two main elements which are problematic. In the end, this is all about respecting our official languages.

My colleague, Ms. Boucher, can certainly corroborate what I am about to say. It took nearly two years, after I raised the matter in committee and elsewhere, to have a sign changed inside Jazz's Dash planes. In English, the sign said: “Do not smoke in the lavatory”. In French, it said: “Ne pas fumer la toilette”, "Do not smoke the lavatory". I'm sure you understood the translation. It took two years of filing complaints with the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, and with Jazz and Air Canada, to make the appropriate changes. It's simply a matter of respect.

Mr. Minister, I would like you to be a bit more proactive. This morning, I was convinced that you would make a grand announcement, namely that a bill amending some provisions relating to Air Canada and the respect of official languages would be introduced this week. I am extremely disappointed. Indeed, usually you are more proactive. We see it all the time, but I think that in this case, you missed the boat, or rather, the flight.

Mr. Minister, I hope that you will consider these elements. If you still need specific details to draft such a bill, I'm sure the committee will be very pleased to get them to you.

I don't know if you have any time left, but I would like to hear your reaction.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have one minute left.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You've certainly been taking the opposite approach from the member for Ottawa—Vanier, who kept his questions short and wanted me to keep my answers short, but I appreciate your interventions.

I did not hear that on Tuesday they presented a chart whereby they were able to associate some complaints with Jazz and some with Air Canada. I have been busy this week, as you may have heard. I met with the commissioner before your committee met on Tuesday, and in the last 36 hours I haven't become aware of it, but I'll look into those elements. I appreciate your wise counsel and the generous spirit of your counsel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

We will continue with Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Minister, we have heard from a lot of witnesses, people who have spoken to this issue. Many colleagues as well, who travel with Air Canada, are very disappointed because they cannot get service in their own language. These are the facts.

We were told that VIA Rail, which had a similar problem, made huge progress, and that it will continue to work on providing service in both official languages throughout Canada. It would be wonderful if Air Canada did the same.

I would like to quote a brief paragraph. We met with Air Canada representatives last Tuesday. Ms. Louise-Hélène Sénécal, who is the Assistant General Counsel for Air Canada's Law Branch, said: “Of course, it is up to parliamentarians to present a bill to amend the Air Canada Public Participation Act”.

So we are not here to back you into a corner, but to encourage and to help you table a bill. But you are not giving us a specific date. You are not giving the committee any tools to help it do its job and move forward with this situation. What might happen is that Air Canada's subsidiaries may be broken up into smaller entities, and we would lose complete control of the situation. We know that Mr. Fraser does not have the power to change the situation either. The only way to do so—this is what Mr. Fraser told us—is to introduce a bill.

Mr. Minister, I would strongly encourage you to do so. In fact, I will ask the committee—if it's possible—I would ask for people to listen; I see that some of my colleagues are standing, Mr. Chairman—to make a motion.

This motion is to encourage you, Mr. Minister, and to help you make the case with the Prime Minister. The motion reads as follows:

The Standing Committee on Official Languages invites the Minister of Transportation to table a bill whereby the Official Languages Act would apply to Air Canada, its subsidiaries and partners, and that the bill be studied by the Standing Committee on Official Languages this spring.

I think we can unanimously support this motion, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Minister, a motion from the committee will probably help you make your case, and that way we will know that there is a bill coming this spring, and not in a year or two, when we will have to start this whole process all over again.

What do you say to that?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I appreciate your encouragement and your offer to help.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

With the consent of the committee, would it be possible to table this motion to encourage the minister, and allow him to say that even the Standing Committee on Official Languages has requested, following various meetings, that a bill be tabled, and that it is a necessity.

There you have it, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ms. Guay, your motion is in order since it is relevant to our work.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Indeed, because two previous bills were rejected.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

So, the committee deems the motion in order.

We could first finish our questioning of the witness, and then, during the same meeting, deal with your motion with committee members in a public hearing.

Mrs. Glover has the floor and would like to make a point of order.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I would like to clarify something. I would like to thank Mr. Nadeau, but this motion is not in both official languages. Therefore, I am giving you notice that if we are to debate the motion, we can do so at a later point when it has been translated.

I will give you the opportunity to do so. This is why I am making the point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Your point of order is quite relevant, Mrs. Glover. It is committee procedure, and the clerk has indicated to me that the motion must be presented in both official languages. Therefore, we will be able to discuss the motion as soon as it is presented in both official languages.

We will move on—

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I would only add one point. You used up quite a lot of my speaking time. I would like to point out that even the minister agrees with the motion. Committee members will have to come to some agreement in order to have a discussion on such legislation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Guay.

We will now continue our round of questions with Mrs. Glover.