Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2010

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

I would like to give a warm welcome to our minister and his two officials. This is the first time we meet. So, welcome to our two witnesses, Ms. Gravitis-Beck and Mr. Schultz.

Minister, I am particularly interested in knowing some of your opinions on some of the things we have heard here in committee. I know you've been very busy trying to put forward measures to improve our economy in this very fragile time and to make sure Canadians are back working. I'm interested in knowing if you have an opinion on the best way to maintain and advance official language rights in aviation while also ensuring that we have a healthy and viable industry.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There's no doubt that the civil aviation industry, virtually across the board around the world, is facing a very significant challenge, not just with the global economic downturn and not just with the events of December 25 last year or the events of September 11, 2001, or the global pandemics. There's no doubt the industry is really struggling. That doesn't authorize them to simply pick and choose which laws passed by Parliament they can follow or decline to follow. There are obligations, and my strong view is that they've got to follow them.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Frankly, it's just practical good business for them as well. As I said, it astounds me that you see problems on flights going from Montreal to northern New Brunswick. It's not just that they wouldn't have to but that they wouldn't be eager to, for commercial reasons.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I agree. I know you've mentioned a couple of times here that you've had conversations with the official languages commissioner and other people. Have they suggested any good practices that might be considered to ensure that the two acts that govern the official languages requirements will be observed?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

One thing that was instructive was that the commissioner related stories to me about the significant efforts that Air Canada made in the run-up to the recent Olympics in Vancouver. I think that demonstrated that when they made a concentrated effort, they got an improved result. That's what the commissioner said. I take him at his word. If he said they did a good job, I'd say to Mr. Godin that he's a pretty good authority on it.

They're more likely to be successful when they try than when they don't try. When they try hard, they're likely to be more successful than if they tried less than that. I think that was instructive.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'm going to switch topics for a moment. Within Air Canada, do you know what proportion of passenger complaints existed with regard to complaints on the official languages portfolio?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Could you repeat that?

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Do you know how many complaints there were, compared to how many passengers used Air Canada? Do you know the numbers?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I understand that in recent years there have been as many as 500 or 600. That's a pretty small number compared to the overall passenger load. Having said that, when I get one letter in my constituency office, that's one thing, but if I get 25 letters, that's symptomatic of a much larger problem. It's not just the number of letters you get. When you consider their passenger volumes of 30 million per year, I think that getting more than 500 is not necessarily significant, but I think it is symptomatic of a problem. There's no doubt about that. There's no denying that. There's no disputing that. Every time you get one complaint, I've got to assume that there are 100 or 200 people who didn't complain.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I'm very glad to hear you say that.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I'm sure Mr. D'Amours' efforts.... I'm sure he made one complaint, but not on every flight he took. I assume it's demonstrably higher than that, as I would assume with any issue, even in my own constituency.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

We all agree with that. In fact the committee, I think unanimously, said that one complaint is one complaint too many and that we need to strive to do better and to encourage them and actually obligate them to follow the Official Languages Act.

If I might take a moment, when I made the point of order, it was to allow the opposition to have time to translate it, because we have members on our side who do not speak French. I'm not sure why there was such push-back, but it was to allow them to have time to translate it. I meant no offence to them, but it is a requirement, and I would like the members on this side to have a chance to read the motion in the language of their choice, which is of course their right.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Ms. Glover.

I would just add, before we turn to Monsieur Godin to conclude our second round, that a motion can be presented verbally in either French or English and then immediately translated, but if it is submitted in writing, it has to be submitted in both official languages.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On that point of order, the motion was not submitted to us in writing. There was no violation of our official language, because it was only read into the microphone, and they have the translation. I didn't get a paper. I don't feel that was a violation. I didn't receive it. It was not given to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I think this is now clear, so let's move on with the last speaker of this round, which is you, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is true that the official languages commissioner has congratulated Air Canada on its services during the Olympic Games. It is also true that Air Canada did better for the games, but are you suggesting that the company should now have recourse to volunteers in order to improve its services?

Things have to be put into context. Last Tuesday, the Air Canada representatives told us that they had improved services, but they did receive help from a great number of volunteers. That was not representative of Air Canada's normal operations. The distinction has to be made. They were boasting about their success during the Olympic Games, but not in the days since. As I have told you, they were infringing the law in March. We agree that there were improvements during the games, but the Air Canada representatives themselves admitted that was because volunteers were helping them out. Would you agree with me? Have you heard those comments, minister?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

My only comment, Mr. Godin, was that, as the commissioner relayed to me, Air Canada made significant, enhanced efforts with regard to official languages in the run-up to and during the Olympic games. They put in new financial resources, I understand, of some $1 million to $1.5 million, and when they tried harder, they got better results. That was my only comment.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Okay. But you don't disqualify that they were talking about volunteer people that they brought there?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

They may have used volunteers, but they also put more management focus on it. They also put additional financial resources on it.

I think one of the benefits of having a Canadian chief executive and a Canadian chief operating officer is that they have people who understand that this is not just some sort of archaic law but part of the national fabric.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Minister, you are wondering whether your House leader would give you the go-ahead to introduce the bill. You have been in the business of introducing bills for quite some time and have enough political experience to know that if your government or the Prime Minister decides to prioritize the bill, then it is not up to the government House leader to lead the way. It is up to the government to decide whether the bill is important enough or not.

The bill we are asking for from you would be an improvement and help ensure that Air Canada and the companies that are no longer part of the parent company comply with the act, and not only the one that is in effect today.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

There's no doubt official languages are a significant priority for the government, for the Prime Minister, for our House leader, for all of us.

I have been minister for 17 months, and this is the first time you've invited me to the committee, which says to me that if this were a bigger priority, I would be getting a lot of questions in the House and you would have had me here in November of 2008. You didn't.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's never too late to start, and you're here today. What are you going to do now that you're here?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I agree totally.

I can tell you that changes with respect to official languages are important. My department also has important issues with respect to rail safety that we would like to get before the House and important legislation with respect to the National Capital Commission that we'd like to get to the House. Those are also important.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You said that despite everything, Air Canada had to comply with the law. The law is the law, and must be respected. Do you agree?