Official Languages Committee on Nov. 24th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome, everyone, to the 15^th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. We are here today, Thursday, November 24, 2011, pursuant to Standing Order 108 to conduct a study of the evaluation of the Roadmap: improving programs and service delivery.

Today, we will hear from two groups, the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, represented by Ms. Kenny and Ms. Bossé, and the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse, represented by Mr. Robichaud and Mr. Léger. Welcome to you all.

We'll begin with the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada.

[Marie-France Kenny, President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

Good morning.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is a great pleasure for the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada to present its views on the successes and challenges related to the implementation of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. As the main representative of the French-language communities living in nine provinces and three territories, the FCFA bases its actions, as is the case with the Roadmap, on one major objective: to increase the ability of francophone citizens across the country to live in their language and to contribute to the influence of linguistic duality.

Since the start of the month, you have met with many organizations from our communities. They have talked to you about what they are doing to enable citizens to enjoy activities and services as part of their everyday lives. They have also told you about the importance of networks, gathering together, joint action and sharing good practices in the work of developing and implementing those activities and services.

In fact, they have told you about a reality specific to the francophone minority communities. Schools, community radio stations, health and justice services, welcome centres for immigrants, cultural centres and economic development support networks have been established because there were initially organizations and institutions that recognized the needs and brought together the bone and sinew of our community to meet them.

How could it be otherwise? In a context in which the francophone communities are often dispersed and remote, it is hard to see how they could ensure their development and access to French-language services of quality equal to that of the services enjoyed by the majority except by organizing themselves into networks and coordinating their activities based on specific issues and priorities.

The FCFA is no exception to this development model. With its slogan "Une voix qui rassemble," it is the ultimate expression of that model. The networking, collaboration, joint action and uniting approach inherent in what the federation does and is has on numerous occasions enabled us to make a tangible contribution to the lives of citizens who want to live in French.

Consider the French-language broadcast of the Vancouver Olympic Games. Barely a few days before the Olympic Games, a number of minority francophones still did not have access to the signal of the V television network, the official broadcaster of the games. Being well aware of the scope of the problem, the FCFA, through its national network, cooperated with a number of government, community and private stakeholders to find a solution.

The FCFA is also, and continues to be, the initiator of development sites that have enabled francophones to gradually gain increased access to services in their language. In particular, it was at the origin of the economic development, literacy and skills development, health and, more recently, immigration networks.

The federation coordinates a steering committee that brings together Citizenship and Immigration Canada, the provincial and territorial governments and stakeholders representing our communities. The FCFA also initiated the summit of francophone and Acadian communities, where more than 700 francophone citizens reported on progress and challenges in the communities and articulated a positive and common vision of that future.

Since then, the federation has coordinated the leaders forum, which comprises 43 agencies and institutions engaged in collaboration to carry out the Community Strategic Plan that emerged from the summit. The FCFA's position as leader of an extensive collaborative network that knows the priorities of francophone citizens makes the federation the inevitable point of contact for a federal government engaged in offering services in both official languages and supporting the development of the official language communities.

It is in that spirit, for example, that we are supporting a number of federal institutions in preparing and evaluating their action plans for the implementation of section 41 of the Official Languages Act. It is also in that spirit that the federation is collaborating with Canadian Heritage's Official Languages Secretariat to guide the Roadmap's implementation. This therefore leads us here to talk to you about this important government initiative, which is now at the midway point. Our comments on this issue are based on three components: major objectives, governance and accountability.

We'll begin with the major objectives. The Roadmap has definitely generated its share of successes. We have has tangible results in health and immigration, for example. However, although the Roadmap's emphasis on service delivery to citizens is welcome, support for the institutions and agencies called upon to provide those services remains a weak point. To echo what the representatives of the Société Santé en français told you, professional health training is definitely very important, but there has to be a place in the community where those professionals can provide the services, and that place must be managed and administered. The same logic obtains for every type of service provided to citizens.

It is important that the next Roadmap expand the approach based on the delivery of services to citizens, relying on the strengthening of the capacities of the networks that provide those services. This is part of the formula for success.

When a citizen accesses a service, that is because there has first been a market study. In this case, there is a market study, and it is the Community Strategic Plan that emerged from the 2007 summit, which, as stated in the Roadmap, clarified the needs of the official language minority communities.

We therefore recommend that the next Roadmap closely match up with the priorities expressed in the plan by the communities themselves. It should also rely on interdepartmental and intergovernmental collaboration in order to achieve tangible results for francophone citizens in an economic and efficient manner. The FCFA and its members are also working closely on common issues with the Conférence ministérielle sur la francophonie canadienne.

With regard to governance, when we are asked about the impact of the Roadmap at the midway point, one of the challenges our communities face is the lack of clarity. It is often difficult to establish a direct connection between an investment and a result in the field, or even to know whether a specific initiative has been funded out of the Roadmap or another program.

Where our communities, with a view to efficient planning, would have liked a breakdown of investments by department, by year and by initiative, the government has instead operated by means of ad hoc announcements. We would be hard pressed to tell you at this point what percentage of funding has reached the communities and what percentage has remained in the federal institutions. This challenge is indissociable from the challenge of coordination.

Implementation of the Roadmap requires a central authority that can oversee what each of the federal institutions concerned is doing, demand results and coordinate match-ups with all partners. The Official Languages Secretariat, which is responsible for implementing the Roadmap, is not equipped or in any position to perform that work efficiently. This coordination deficiency has highlighted a harmful effect of the Roadmap. Largely left to their own devices, certain federal institutions that receive funding have stopped investing their own resources in support of the official language communities. That was definitely not the effect sought by the government.

The last governance challenge concerns consultation. The Roadmap's horizontal management framework provides for very few mechanisms for dialogue with the official language minority communities, as a result of which some federal institutions have set targets and objectives for themselves without consulting the communities that do not necessarily reflect the objectives of the communities themselves. A horizontal management framework for a renewed Roadmap should provide for systematic consultations with the communities for the development, implementation and evaluation of each of the initiatives.

As regards accountability, we are all very much aware of the fact that the amounts of money associated with the Roadmap come from taxpayers. No one likes waste and everyone likes to see results. However, we have to have the human, financial and technical capacity to do the work.

As I mentioned earlier, our organizations are in the position of providers of a growing variety of services to citizens. However, in business, measuring customer satisfaction is an inherent part of service delivery. This is another solid argument in favour of strengthening the capacities of our organizations and institutions, particularly with regard to research and evaluation. This accountability also extends to provincial and territorial governments. When the federal government transfers funding to them, it confers on them responsibility to meet its official language obligations. However, the language clauses in the transfer agreements currently do not enable the government to ensure that funding has been well spent in the planned manner, with benefits for francophone minority citizens. And yet this is taxpayers' money. With that in mind, it is important to develop better accountability mechanisms and to include progress targets and indicators in the language clauses.

The last point I would like to address with you is the evaluation of the Roadmap. There has been a lot of talk about the mid-term report in your committee's proceedings. The FCFA is pleased the committee has adopted a motion in favour of publishing that report, which we definitely need.

That said, it is important to note that the FCFA and its members have very little information on how the summary evaluations that should begin this fall will be conducted. Furthermore, although the FCFA and the organizations receiving Roadmap funding were consulted for the community perspective at the mid-term point, we have not seen the report on those consultations and are concerned that our observations should be taken into account. This leads us to the lack of clarity we referred to in the chapter on governance.

In conclusion, I would say that, while the Roadmap has definitely produced tangible results, it had a somewhat chaotic start. It was announced in June 2008, three months after the start of the first of the five fiscal years over which it was spread. We had to wait until March 2009 to see the first investments made. Supposing the Roadmap is launched on April 1, 2013, not much time remains to trigger the consultation process in order to develop its content. From a logical standpoint of effectiveness and efficiency, we cannot afford to have a hiatus after March 31, 2013 that would suspend all work started under the current Roadmap.

Thank you for your attention, and I am ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Ms. Kenny.

Now we'll hear the people from the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse.

[Ronald Robichaud, President, Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse]

Ladies and gentlemen members, distinguished guests. First I want to thank you for inviting the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse, FANE, to speak as part of this evaluation of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality. I am here with our executive director, Jean Léger.

FANE's main mission is to neutralize assimilation of the province's francophones, to the extent of its resources, and to promote our country's two official languages, while working toward the development and vitality of our community. Its main objectives are to promote the common interests of the Acadian and francophone population of Nova Scotia; to further collaboration among the francophone associations, institutions, societies and agencies; to act as both an interest group and a community development agency; to act as official representative of the Acadian and francophone population; and to ensure the linguistic, cultural, economic, social and political survival and development of the province's Acadian people.

Since its inception, the Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse has contributed to the initiation and advancement of a number of files, including those concerning the schools, economic, political and socio-cultural fields, youth, women and seniors and those related to literacy, immigration and communications. FANE also put pressure on the provincial government to pass the French-Language Services Act of 2004.

Among other things, you have asked us to give you our observations regarding the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality 2008-2013. Our executive director will now give you FANE's position on that subject.

[Jean Léger, Executive Director, Fédération acadienne de la Nouvelle-Écosse]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Ladies and gentlemen members.

First of all, we are very pleased that the present Conservative government has continued this effort to develop and implement an action plan to reinforce this fundamental value of our country, linguistic duality. Now let's hope that developing this kind of plan for official languages becomes a normal and important thing for all parties at the bar of the House in Ottawa.

In preparation for our testimony today, we conducted a survey of our members. We received 20 responses from FANE's 29 member organizations, slightly more than two-thirds of our members, which is a fairly reasonable sample.

The findings indicate that 81.3% think the Roadmap has been an asset for the community. The existing and recurring government programs designed to support the communities are not enough to enable the communities to develop and grow fully in Canadian society. So this plan helps a great deal.

People thus think that this edition of a Roadmap or Action Plan for Linguistic Duality is of prime importance and enables the community to do work that it would be unable to do under regular programs. This survey also shows that nearly three-quarters of our organizations, that is 73.7%, have received funding under the Roadmap. Here we are also thinking of investments in a few sectors such as early childhood, the Grandir en français program and the construction of community school centres.

With regard to schools issues, the Roadmap has enabled our school board, which is experiencing a sharp increase in registration, to improve the offer of its services through additional funding, because the current funding formula of Heritage Canada's Official Languages Support Program does not favour our school board for historic reasons. The Roadmap has therefore made it possible to correct that situation.

As you know, the Acadians and francophones of Nova Scotia did not get their homogenous French-language school system until 1996. Now the provincial Conseil scolaire acadien enables young francophones in our province to make enormous educational progress in French.

In addition to opening new schools and new community school centres, a lot of work has had to be done—and much work remains to be done—to access services in our language. We must continue to reach the largest number of rights holders. Approximately 50% of our rights holders are said to be registered. Consequently we still have to go after the remaining 50%.

The community school centres that have been supported by the Roadmap have received major contributions. The governments of Nova Scotia and Canada have invested in four communities: Truro; Rive-Sud, which is the Lunenburg region; Par-en-Bas, the region of the Pubnicos, Tusket and Wedgeport; and, lastly, Halifax. It is now important for funding to be available so they can operate.

As you know, the Acadian and francophone community is a burgeoning community. New regions have developed and new schools have been built at the request of parents and the community. Those schools must also be able to enjoy adequate funding.

Our survey also shows that our members credit the Roadmap for the Cultural Development Fund. The Enterprise Cape Breton Corporation, which is associated with the Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, has also participated to a greater degree. That effort has enabled the economically disadvantaged region of Cape Breton to take a more active part in the economy. In that regard, note that we have a lot of work to do to achieve equality with the anglophone community.

The survey also revealed that 17% of francophones 15 years of age and over have less than a grade 9 education. Consequently, we still have a lot of work to do on literacy. That percentage is distinctly higher than the figure for anglophones, which is only 8.6%, a gap of 8.4 percentage points. That's virtually twice that figure.

In addition, 28.5% of francophones 15 years of age and over have an education ranging from grade 9 to grade 13. That figure is 8 percentage points less than that of the anglophones in the province, which is between 35% and 36%. There is a genuine education gap. It is often people who have not had access to French-language schools who now have literacy challenges in their everyday lives. They have difficulty taking part in the economy as they have literacy levels lower than those of the anglophone majority.

We have obviously had successes with the Roadmap as regards French-language services, thanks, among others, to the Réseau Santé – Nouvelle-Écosse, which is supported by the Société Santé en français. With the aging of the population, the challenges will also continue.

Our Réseau Santé, which is supported by the Roadmap, has been able to support some excellent initiatives, such as early childhood services, speech therapy screening and family services program. The Roadmap has also helped improve our capacity to offer French-language health services in the Annapolis Valley and, of course, to work on recruiting health professionals.

With regard to health professionals, we want to recognize the efforts of the Consortium national de santé en français.

In francophone immigration, the Roadmap has also helped increase collaboration between the Acadian and francophone communities of the Atlantic, which has vastly increased our capacity.

I would like to say that the Roadmap has supplemented other federal investments. It has also enabled us to work more closely with anglophone agencies. We're now working with anglophones on both immigration and economic issues. This has really had complementary effects, which, for us, are structural effects in the very long term.

It is difficult to see how the Roadmap is progressing. As the FCFA mentioned, we do not have that much data to determine its actual impact. I believe it is important that the departments concerned by the Roadmap engage in a sustained dialogue with the communities. That is perhaps what is somewhat lacking. That might be consistent with subsection 43(2) of the Official Languages Act, which refers specifically to consultation. It would therefore be desirable to conduct more consultation because we have overall development plans. There is one at the national level, and the provinces have them as well. It is important to align the two. Consequently, communication and dialogue with the departments are very important.

It is also important for the departments and agencies investing in the current Roadmap not to drop the ball once funding is exhausted. We suggest that they find ways to continue their engagement with the communities. Allow me to explain.

For us, one concrete example of this situation has been the withdrawal of Industry Canada, which was identified in the previous plan, the Action Plan for Official Languages. Industry Canada was working very closely with the community because that department had money from the Action Plan for Official Languages. However, when the money disappeared, the department completely withdrew. Unfortunately, we now have very little contact with Industry Canada in Nova Scotia. And yet there are some major issues in which Industry Canada could support the communities. So attention must be paid to that.

We also believe that the community relies on a well-organized community network, which is a strength and promotes the bilingual nature of our country. We would like the federal government to continue strengthening this network because it is the backbone of our continued existence.

Now I would like to hand over to our president so he can tell you about our recommendations.

[Ronald Robichaud]

Thank you, Jean.

Our recommendations are: that there be another Roadmap that is at least of the same scope as the one we are discussing today to enable the full implementation of section 2 of the Official Languages Act; that the successful initiatives made possible by the Roadmap be set out in the next Roadmap or integrated into existing or new programs; that the plan be promoted to a greater degree to the communities and to the Canadian general public as a whole; and that the various departments report to the principal interested parties, the communities, as the Roadmap is being implemented.

Ladies and gentlemen, those are our comments. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

We have an hour and a quarter at our disposal to hear comments and questions from committee members.

We'll begin with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to welcome you to the committee and especially to discuss this mid-term study of the Roadmap that we are conducting, as well as what will be happening in future.

Mr. Robichaud, I heard you say that you wanted the Roadmap to return. Ms. Kenny, I believe you said that as well. What is its importance for you? I want us to go further because the question whether there will be another Roadmap is still up in the air.

Mr. Léger said how the Roadmap had supplemented certain previously existing programs. Do you have any other comments to make on the importance of this Roadmap?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I heard my colleague from Yukon tell you this week that he wanted it 200%. I will say that I want another Roadmap one million per cent. That's not to bid his figure up, but as we said earlier—and Mr. Léger said it as well—we've generated some momentum. We've created programs that we would like to see last. If we take an initiative and it's no longer around and no longer funded in two years, I find it hard to see how the government's investment to date can continue to produce results. So, in my opinion, it would be inefficient not to renew the Roadmap and to abandon certain initiatives.

As I mentioned earlier, we must not expect to see an increase in the capacity of our resources to offer those services because that plate is already full.

[Suzanne Bossé, Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada]

I would like to add something to what Ms. Kenny said. When we see the current investments, we see that the Roadmap has to be renewed in certain cases, for example, to make Termium accessible to the public. When we appeared before the Standing Committee on Finance, we asked that the government reiterate that commitment in the next budget and that that renewal be based on our community's strategy plan, which acknowledges and very clearly identifies the issues and proposes courses of action. We're calling for a much closer alignment with what the communities are asking for and much closer collaboration.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Let's talk about collaboration. I heard that the Roadmap was mainly based on health, immigration and so on. Now I hear Mr. Léger say that Industry Canada was in the old plan, but has been ruled out. But it was good for us.

Ms. Kenny told us that it was one million per cent important for there to be another Roadmap. Next week, the figure may be two million per cent. Let's hope the government understands the message. Hearing you today, I find it encouraging that the communities are saying that the formula put in place has gradually increased since the beginning, in 2001. It's encouraging to hear that. They say that something is happening on the ground, but that some improvements can be made. Unless I'm mistaken, when you talk about being accountable, that doesn't mean it's you who will be deciding at the other end. It's more a question of partnership between the community and the government, so there are discussions to determine what happens on the ground and so you, as a community or organization representing your community, have a say because you are close to those people. You want to be heard.

Again with regard to accountability, are you also saying that money has been sent but you don't know how it's being spent? For example, some groups have said that money is going to certain provinces, but once it's there, they don't know how it is being spent. Is the money being well spent? Do you also have a problem in that regard? Would you like there to be improvements in that area?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Let's consider the case of the transfers that are made to the provinces, not necessarily just under the Roadmap. Let's consider education transfers, for example. Recently we've seen that transfers are being made for French-language schools or for immersion schools, but that the province is deciding to use them for other purposes. We must make sure we have mechanisms with performance indicators. If a transfer is made, we must ensure that the portion that must go to the community goes to the community.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's the problem for me. Yes, it's true that education is a provincial jurisdiction; we agree on that. It's not the federal government that will say what the programs will be. However, section 43 of the act provides that there will be investments for promotion. Based on that, there will be money for the schools. It's unacceptable for people not to know whether the province is using that money for that purpose or not, or for there to be doubts that the money has been allocated to that. Whether we're talking about the Roadmap or not, it is unacceptable for the federal government to send money to minority communities, for people to say that the money is not going to the communities and that no one has to be accountable. Not only is that the case, but no one will tell us what happened to that money, if it was used elsewhere.

The Commissioner of Official Languages himself said it. He spoke with the provincial ministers, who told him they were receiving money, but that they were spending it elsewhere. I believe the federal government can't say that it is because of areas of provincial jurisdiction that it can't know where the money goes. That doesn't mean you have to count every cent or every program. When we talk about provincial jurisdictions, we know that the programs fall under the jurisdiction of the provinces, but the money should at least be used for minority community programs. Do you agree with me?

[Suzanne Bossé]

This week, the FCFA and a few member organizations spent a day with the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development discussing transfers to the provinces and language clauses. The answer we received from the department is that, in fact, the memorandum of understanding between the federal government and the province does not really contain a language clause, in any case one concerning Human Resources and Skills Development. It's more of an administrative contract. So there is not really any accountability; federal funding is being transferred without any further concern as to how it will be spent.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

How does that work in Nova Scotia? You said it was going to help the schools, early childhood. You mentioned education.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

[Jean Léger]

Personally, I have no concerns about that. I haven't heard that federal government money was being invested in the province and not going to the communities. I haven't heard any talk about that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

A good party, the NDP.

[Some voices]

Oh, oh!

[Jean Léger]

In my 10-year career as executive director of FANE, I have previously heard those kinds of things, although I haven't heard any in the past few years. I haven't heard that about the Roadmap. I spoke with the people at the department of education and our provincial Acadian school board, and there has never been any mention of money that has been lost somewhere or that didn't go to the communities. That isn't necessarily a concern for me.

However, I would like to answer your question and to tell you why we should have another Roadmap, and why it's important. The reason is that the illiteracy rate is very high. Francophones are not yet fully able to take part in the Canadian economy, in Canadian democracy or Canadian society. We've started. We are working on the immigration issue. We have to continue. There are also other sectors.

The next Roadmap must not only continue providing assistance to sectors that have needs, but also support development in other sectors so that the francophone and Acadian communities can participate fully in Canadian society. That is why I am in favour of the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality, so that we can be equal, to a certain degree, to the extent we can afford it, with the majority communities in each of the provinces.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here this morning. We are privileged to have witnesses of your calibre and representatives of your federations which are showing so much leadership on linguistic duality in Canada.

I know your federations have put action plans in place. The Roadmap has facilitated certain initiatives. It has made it possible to launch certain initiatives. However, in what direction do you want to go with those initiatives, and how can the next government measures help you after the Roadmap expires?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I'm sorry but I'm having trouble hearing you. I didn't understand the last part of your question.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I'll summarize. The Roadmap enables your federations to put initiatives in place. Some initiatives were already in place. You've been able to continue work on certain initiatives and to introduce others. In future, what direction will the initiatives designed to improve your communities take?

[Marie-France Kenny]

The francophone and Acadian communities, together with the leaders forum, have established the work priorities of their Community Strategic Plan. In that plan, we talk about our space, that is to say everything that pertains to communication, the press and our community networks. We also talk about our population and immigration issues. Initiatives have been implemented across our francophone and Acadian communities, and we have a duty to support them. For example, it can be established in the Roadmap that such and such an initiative, let's say the creation of a community radio station, will be funded. However, the initiative has to continue once the Roadmap expires. Otherwise, in my opinion, that's a wasted investment for the government and the community. We have to ensure that we continue what we're building and that we don't stop halfway through the construction.