Official Languages Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

I believe there are similar things at the Université Sainte-Anne, in Nova Scotia, at the Campus Saint-Jean of the University of Alberta, and definitely at the Université de Saint-Boniface, in Manitoba. The University of Ottawa definitely has those kinds of agreements as well. I can't tell you specifically about the content of each of those agreements, but most of our universities work together with the public service in this area.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

All right. So it's a widespread model in Canada. We don't have a national school of administration, and I don't believe we necessarily want to have one to train national school graduates who would represent a public service elite.

Do you or your members have any ideas about the way to deliver programs in the universities in order to prepare people for public service careers?

We often have this problem in an imperfect world: it's when you choose a career that you realize you need to know French.

[Kenneth McRoberts]

I agree.

In fact, I believe the best way to enter the public service truly bilingual is not to introduce French second-language courses for public servants who are already employed by the government, but rather to ensure that postsecondary institutions prepare bilingual graduates. That means that our institutions must be able to take in more students from immersion schools. That's why we wanted to establish a bursary program for those students. In our view, that would be a priority for the next Roadmap.

It must be acknowledged that we are the only institutions that really have considerable experience in second-language instruction. We have always had a number of francophile students at our institutions. They are even the majority at some of our institutions. So we are able to offer immersion school graduates an authentic experience. That enables them to spend time in a completely francophone or bilingual environment with university programming in French. Bursaries make it possible to take in more students from immersion schools; that is essential because it has to be acknowledged that the vast majority of immersion school graduates subsequently attend English-language universities and will not enrol at French-language or bilingual universities.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

All right.

I would like to ask another question. I'd like to talk about the national mobility program you mentioned. Could you give us an overview of that program's successes, because mobility, exchanges with other universities, are an important component of students' education.

[Kenneth McRoberts]

It's a new program that we are developing and we are planning exchange programs between the francophone universities in Quebec and the universities of our association in Ontario and New Brunswick. The basic concept involves students spending one or two semesters at another institution. That will enable both Quebeckers and non-Quebeckers to spend time in another part of Canadian society and to develop a greater understanding of an aspect of the francophonie. So it will strengthen solidarity within the francophonie in Canada.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

It's also a great national unity project.

[Kenneth McRoberts]

Yes, indeed.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.

[Normand Lévesque]

I'd like to go back to the idea of training public servants, as it concerns clear and effective communication. A few years ago, a lot of training was offered to federal public servants on how to communicate with citizens more simply and clearly. I believe this is another important component that has an impact on relations and on literacy. We know that people have trouble reading and writing. So the clearer and more effective the government's communications, the easier relations will be.

I'm going to engage in advertising, but I must say that part of your revenue comes from our clear and effective efforts. So if you had more contracts with the federal government, it would be even easier to move things forward.

Beyond advertising and jokes, I believe this is important. A lot of work has been done, but there has been a lot less of it in the past few years. The same is true of the provincial governments: the clearer and easier their communications are, the more readily citizens can understand the government and its various policies. That's what I wanted to say when I said I wanted to go back to Mr. McRoberts' idea.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Lévesque.

Mr. Harris, you have the floor.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thanks to all of you for coming here today.

My questions will concern early childhood.

I am Franco-Ontarian. I was born and grew up in Toronto. I attended Le Petit Chaperon Rouge, a child care centre at a francophone school in Toronto, which really enriched my education at that same school. I attended it from kindergarten to grade 8.

Later on, I did my secondary studies in French and, after leaving school, started having trouble with French because the francophone community Toronto is not centralized. It was hard to live in French in Toronto.

What do you think is the most important thing for early childhood that would make it possible to improve the situation of all our children?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

As I said in my presentation, if we invest $1 in early childhood right now, that is to say while the mother is pregnant, we will save $8 in the long run. That would be a major investment because our children are the citizens of tomorrow.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'd like to get a minor clarification. Where would you like to invest that money, in what program or in what actual field?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

I'm going to preach for francophone parents. We are in favour of childhood and family centres that would be attached to our francophone schools or located nearby. We would like them to be multisectoral. We don't just want child care services; we want more than that. We would like our health services, literacy services for parents and maternity services, for example, to be attached to a francophone community that would be near the school, as you experienced. Your French is impeccable as a result of that. In fact, in your childhood, you attended a child care centre in French. You continued your studies in French, including your secondary education. However, when we get to university, we change tracks and lose our French a little.

The research shows that, if we want people to be perfectly bilingual, they have to progress in French for as long as possible. With regard to early childhood, you have to start with the parents because we know that 63% of our parents in Ontario belong to exogamous families. I imagine one of your parents was anglophone.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

My parents came from Sherbrooke.

[Ghislaine Pilon]

Was one of your parents francophone and the other anglophone?

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

My father learned French so that he could teach it.

[Ghislaine Pilon]

That's fantastic; both your parents spoke French at home.

If there are services for a family expecting a baby, we know we'll go after the francophone parents and rights holders. In fact, if there are no services, we lose them because they turn to English-language services. They go to see a doctor in English, they go to see a nutritionist in English, and they take prenatal courses in English. We lose that family right off the bat. If we want the country to be really bilingual, we have to live linguistic duality at home.

When an anglophone parent and a francophone parent speak both languages to their children, the children become perfectly bilingual. However, you have to start in early childhood, and even during the mother's pregnancy. That's very important.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

So that has to be done right from the outset. It has an accumulative effect. That happens in early childhood, at the postsecondary level and subsequently in programs for adults.

We see what is happening with the budget cuts. We are afraid that some departments are not concerned about official language training. We are afraid the impact may harm the francophone minority community.

I must admit I didn't attend Glendon College because it didn't have a IT program in 1998-1999, but that campus is one of the most beautiful in the country. My best friend works there and he's lucky to be able to work in French. That gives him an opportunity to preserve his language.

We've already discussed this northern study which was started during the last Parliament. The government has already spent $100,000 on the study. We went to Whitehorse and Yellowknife and we still have to go to Nunavut, where part of the population is francophone. In fact, four languages are spoken there.

My question is for each of you. Do you believe it would be useful for the committee to complete that report and for it to be tabled in Parliament so that it can be made public?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

I don't think we should forget that territory. One of the members of the Commission nationale des parents francophones represents the francophones of Nunavut at every one of our meetings. They happen; we have them. So we have to continue in that vein. Otherwise, if we forget them, we lose them. That's part of the north. Pardon me, but they are Canadians like the rest of the population.

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

I believe those meetings in the Northwest Territories were an excellent idea. I'm sure that gave you some very relevant information for your work. The important thing in my mind is knowing what recommendations will come out of that document and what will be done in response to them. As a citizen, I would like to know what is going on.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

What do you say about that, Mr. Lévesque?

[Normand Lévesque]

I agree with Jocelyne. I think it's important; otherwise, Canada would not be what it is. We can't say to ourselves that, since there are fewer people there, we won't go. I don't think that's logical. As Jocelyne just mentioned, it's important for that report to be public. It's important to see how those recommendations are followed up. We consider that important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

I have a question that the analyst suggested to me. She wants to know whether the childhood and family centres are the same thing as the community school centres. Are they the same thing?

[Ghislaine Pilon]

No, but they're related, most of the time. You'll find an early childhood centre at a community centre because that's the heart of the francophone community. However, it's not always the distinguishing feature. Some people have opened their community school centre for the community but no longer have any space for the early childhood centres. So they're located elsewhere.

They're not the same thing.