Official Languages Committee on Dec. 13th, 2011

[Jean Fahmy, Past President, Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien]

Good morning, Mr. Chair. Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

We are pleased and honoured to appear before you this morning. Thank you for giving us this opportunity to talk about one of the most vibrant Franco-Ontarian communities. By that I mean the community of writers and all those who work in the book industry.

My name is Jean Mohsen Fahmy and my colleague's name is Yves Turbide. Mr. Turbide is the director general of the Association des auteures et auteurs de l’Ontario français. I was the president of this association and the founding president of the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien.

As authors and book people, we are active participants in the Franco-Ontarian community, which, as you know, is vibrant and very much alive. It is also a large community. Actually, we now have over 600,000 francophones in the province. We are four times the population of Prince Edward Island, and two-thirds of the total population of New Brunswick or Nova Scotia.

We Franco-Ontarians come from many different backgrounds. We actually have many tools to help us continue to grow. Do I need to mention the French Language Services Act in Ontario and the whole host of community and cultural associations that make the community vibrant? But we must never take this vibrancy for granted. We have to keep looking for other tools that will enhance our vitality. And I must point out right away that, on its journey forward, the Franco-Ontarian community has long enjoyed the support of federal organizations, particularly the support of the Department of Canadian Heritage, the Canada Council for the Arts and Radio-Canada. Your committee has also played a lead role in helping our community, as it has done for other official language minority communities.

The Department of Canadian Heritage has been our partner in countless undertakings. The Canada Council for the Arts has been helping publishers. Radio-Canada has broadcast throughout our province and, at the suggestion of our community, has readily agreed to create a literary award called the Prix des lecteurs Radio-Canada. This award was initially a provincial award, but is now a prestigious national award.

As you know, the federal government created the Roadmap for Canada’s Linguistic Duality in 2008. Under the Roadmap, just over $20 million went to the cultural component, including almost $5 million for literature. We would like the budget for the next roadmap to include a larger portion for culture, especially for literature and books. Why? Because literature and books are tools that our community needs to continue promoting French language and francophone culture in Ontario.

Let me briefly tell you about the history of Franco-Ontarian literature, which is absolutely remarkable. The first book was published by a francophone publisher in 1973, in Sudbury, Ontario. And I would just like to add that Sudbury has played and continues to play a major role in promoting our literature.

After that first book, there was an explosion of creativity. Dozens of novelists and poets feverishly wrote great literary works. In 1989, a group of authors established the Association des auteures et auteurs de l’Ontario français in Ottawa. That’s the association I’m representing here today. In the same year, publishers founded the Regroupement des éditeurs canadiens-français. In 1996, the Ontario government recognized this reality and introduced the French-language Prix Trillium, which is awarded every year to the best francophone writer in the province.

Our association, the AAOF, has 180 members now. That means that we have 180 full-fledged authors in French-speaking Ontario. The association provides them with services in four specific ways: we raise awareness among Franco-Ontarians about literature, we support authors in the creative process, we sponsor promotional activities, and we try to give greater exposure to the works.

Meanwhile, the Regroupement des éditeurs canadiens-français is made up of nine Franco-Ontarian publishers, four or five of which are here in Ottawa. Our writers are of Franco-Ontarian origin, but they also come from all over Africa —Rwandans, Congolese, Cameroonians, and so forth—from the Middle East—Egyptians, Lebanese, Syrians—from France and the rest of Europe, from Argentina, from Haiti. Simply put, the Franco-Ontarian literary community is a microcosm of Canada.

I said that our authors write wonderful novels and prestigious essays. I’m not the only one to say that; seven of us have already received the Governor General's Award.

So there is plenty of creativity, but in terms of book distribution and building a strong readership, we have quickly discovered gaps. And that is why, in 2007, we created the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien, managed by the AAOF.

What is this Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien? Well, it brings together representatives of authors, publishers, book distributors, booksellers, librarians and instructors; in a nutshell, it brings together representatives from all economic and cultural sectors of the French book industry in Ontario. So we can see that a very large number of workers participate in the economy of the province.

The Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien did a number of studies and quickly concluded that we had to take vigorous action for our books to reach a wider readership in the community and in our schools.

We came to the conclusion that it was time to develop a book policy for French-speaking Ontario. This is one of the main reasons why we are here before you. We are asking for your support as a committee in our undertakings.

We are currently working on the draft of the book policy. To do so, we have partly drawn on the experience of the two other provinces that already have book policies in place.

The first province is Quebec. Bill 51 on the book policy in Quebec has been in place for nearly 30 years. In some ways, it is a restrictive policy. For example, Quebec schools and public libraries must only get books from accredited bookstores in Quebec, except for textbooks. This immediately ensures a large market for Quebec books in the neighbouring province and it ensures the longevity of publishing houses and bookstores.

The second province is New Brunswick, whose policy is much more recent. It was adopted three years ago. It was initially designed to help the Acadian population of the province, but it was then extended to the two language groups in New Brunswick. It is less restrictive than the Quebec policy; it does not impose a quota system or mandatory purchases, but it strongly encourages all book industry stakeholders to promote the works produced in New Brunswick.

Here in Ontario, our association and our community have a vision of what a Franco-Ontarian book policy should be. It should promote public purchase policies, it should create educational programs to promote reading and studying Franco-Ontarian works, it should set up publishing mechanisms, it should create programs to promote books and reading, and, finally, it should encourage the purchase of books in francophone bookstores in the province. Simply put, all we want is for our governments—the Ontario government in particular—to show strong support for making books and reading accessible.

In light of how jurisdictions work, this book policy will actually have to fall under the provincial government, but we hope and we wish that it will also allow for a sensible partnership between federal and provincial authorities. We hope that Canadian Heritage will continue to help us develop this policy and will help us implement it afterwards.

In that spirit, we come before you today. We know that you will lend us a sympathetic ear, as your colleagues on this committee have done in the past. We know that you will want to stand with us and assist us so that Franco-Ontarian literature can continue to flourish and to be a source of pride for all Canadians.

Thank you for your attention. Mr. Turbide and I are ready to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Fahmy.

We have 30 minutes for questions and comments.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I yield to Mr. Harris, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Go ahead, Mr. Harris.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I also thank the witnesses for coming to make their presentations today.

As a Franco-Ontarian, I must say that it is very important for our culture to survive and flourish. I want to ask some questions, but unfortunately, just like my distinguished colleagues, I also have motions to introduce because I want to make sure that they are made public.

Here is the first motion:

That, by January 30, 2012, the committee publicly justify why it has spent $109,621.18 to conduct an as-yet incomplete study on linguistic duality in Canada's north.

I give notice of the second motion, as follows:

That the committee ask the Treasury Board subcommittee conducting the strategic and operational review to provide, by March 1, 2012, a report on the status of official languages in the strategic and operational review as well as an official languages' status report at the end of the review.

Thank you. Once again, I apologize for taking some time to present my notices of motion.

When I was younger, I was my party's assistant critic for science and technology.

In your studies, have you looked at the question of books being available online? A lot of people these days are buying things like iPads or Kindles. Do you know how many Franco-Ontarian books are available online?

[Yves Turbide, Secretary General, Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien]

Of the four or five publishing houses here in Ottawa…

It's a long process. Actually, the technology is not all there yet. It is not yet mainstream enough, so to speak, for all the technologies to be harmonized. There are also security questions in terms of making products available online as opposed to making them available in stores or from distributors. Some authors are starting to…

Online distribution is probably quite tentative in comparison to what can be found on the English side. However, most publishers are getting on board and giving their authors the option of distributing their books online. It is still basically a matter of negotiation between the author and the publisher. It also depends on what the author really wants. Most publishers have already taken the first steps.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you. So it's starting to happen.

[Yves Turbide]

Yes.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Not very long ago, the Librairie Champlain in Toronto closed. That made me sad; I had been going there to buy my books since I was very young.

If this book policy had been in effect in Ontario, do you think that the bookstore might perhaps still be there?

[Jean Fahmy]

Absolutely. That is one of the reasons why we are here.

If I may, very quickly, I would like to sum up our position. The Franco-Ontarian literature available is amazing, but the demand is not there. That is not because people do not want to ask for it; it is because there is no channel to encourage and create the demand in schools.

When our publishers want to place their products in Franco-Ontarian bookstores, they face competition from a very significant number of other publishers, from Quebec, from France or from elsewhere. By contrast, we are relatively few in number. So long as there is no active way to tell Franco-Ontarians, or others who speak French in our province, that we have great Franco-Ontarian books, sales will continue to fail to meet our expectations and bookstores will continue to close.

As you know, our bookstores can buy their books anywhere. It does not work the other way around. French-language bookstores in Quebec cannot buy their books from us because of Quebec's Bill 51. So there is a kind of imbalance between the demand on both sides and the book policy we would like to see.

We do not yet know if our proposal to our provincial government is going to involve a restrictive public purchasing policy or if we are going to opt for a very proactive approach like New Brunswick's. But we would like a public purchasing policy that would allow the Librairie Champlain, and all the others, to remain open.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

[Yves Turbide]

A bookstore in Casselman closed too. So did the Librairie du Nouvel-Ontario, Grand Ciel Bleu, in Sudbury.

Really, a clear and precise purchasing policy that would allow books to be carried in bookstores close to the institutions that ordered them would allow those stores to maintain their presence since most of their revenue comes from sales to those institutions. And if the bookstores were located right there, people would keep looking in the window and coming in.

In addition, if the policy was similar to the spirit of Bill 51 in Quebec where accredited bookstores have to keep a certain percentage of Quebec content on their shelves, the bookstores here would likewise have to keep a certain percentage of Franco-Ontarian products. Not only would French-language literary products be available, so would Franco-Ontarian products, anywhere there was a bookstore. That is where the real strength…

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I have to interrupt you, unfortunately, because I'd like to ask another question before my time…

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

You don't have any more time.

[Dan Harris, NDP, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Oh, that's a pity!

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Your turn, Mr. Weston.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for joining us today, Mr. Turbide and Mr. Fahmy. I really like meeting people who are passionate about their work, as you both are. What a great story you told about the explosion of success in Sudbury. I was really inspired. So thank you very much.

You mentioned the influence of Bill 101 in Quebec. When we talk about linguistic duality here in Canada, we can also think about governmental duality. On the one hand, it influences or obliges people to do something, as the provisions of Bill 101 do. On the other hand, it encourages people who want the duality to flourish here in Canada.

Can you talk a little more about those two influences? How can we encourage Canadians to speak both languages? At what point will the participation, the intrusion perhaps, of government into the life and choices of Canadians be necessary?

[Jean Fahmy]

I don't think we need to impose anything on Canadians at all. I think we just have to show them the extraordinary richness and amazing potential of our linguistic duality. I say, as does our association, that we are one of the most fortunate of societies in having two of the most prestigious and culture-laden languages on the planet. And we must capitalize on that. That is what we are doing in Ontario more and more.

How can we arrange for Ontario society as a whole, both anglophone and francophone, to become more aware of that richness? By giving the francophone minority a greater and greater presence and profile and by making its cultural products more and more visible, including its books.

To answer your question more directly, I will tell you that we are just at the beginning of the development of a policy like that. I mentioned that earlier. We have done studies to find out about the situation in the trenches. Today, we do not know whether we should propose a relatively restricted approach to our provincial government, one in which only bookstores and libraries would be required to offer Franco-Ontarian books—which is basically all we are asking—and in which schools would teach Franco-Ontarian literature better so that both students and teachers would become more familiar with it.

Are we going to ask our provincial government for a more restricted approach, or are we going to adopt what I venture to call the “New Brunswick model”, which is still in its infancy? The policy is only three years old and it is firmly based on incentives. The New Brunswick government has invested money to encourage public libraries to buy books in both official languages, to encourage schools to use both official languages, and so on. We do not yet know which of the two approaches we are going to take, but we want results.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

You talked about the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien and the fact that you want to bring the cultural and economic sectors together.

How can we use economic potential, incentives, to promote linguistic duality in Canada? I'm not thinking along the lines of the government forcing the situation, in a kind of noblesse oblige.

[Jean Fahmy]

I think you just have to quote a figure from a Conference Board of Canada study. It states that cultural activity in Canada generates between $80 and $85 billion for the country's economy. That is about 5% of our gross domestic product. You cannot turn up your nose at an amount like that. We have several hundred thousand people employed in culture across the country.

You are perfectly right, sir; this is not just a matter of noblesse oblige. We also have to look out for our economic interests, of course. That is why we should continue to support culture in all its forms.

[John Weston, Conservative, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

It really is in [Editor's note: inaudible]. It implies that, in the future, it will endure. Whatever the government or the politics, I personally want my children and their children to be able to speak both languages, and to want to do so.

[Jean Fahmy]

Absolutely.

[Yves Turbide]

If I may, I am going to quote Jeff Dayton-Johnson, from Dalhousie University. In a 2000 study for Heritage Canada, Mr. Dayton-Johnson was himself quoting UNESCO when he said that cultural products are not commodities like others. The study states that “…markets for cultural products cannot be expected to meet the conditions under which purely market-mediated production will be the most efficient.” Later, he writes: “Cultural products provide the raw material for a national conversation that allows the formation of national identity and for the construction of social cohesion.”

I feel that the contribution of the artistic and cultural sectors is front and centre in the two majority language groups in Canada. So I feel that encouraging a wider distribution of a cultural product like literature will allow us to work towards those objectives.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Turbide and Mr. Weston.

Mr. Bélanger, you have the floor.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, gentlemen.

I will be brief. Do you know whether the program in New Brunswick receives financial assistance from the federal government?