Evidence of meeting #45 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was departments.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Some major institutions have an obligation to submit an annual report, but we operate in accordance with a random method for the others. Does that answer your question?
Liberal
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
There are 200 institutions, and one-third of them answer the questions every year.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Do they know in advance in which year they will have to submit a report, or is that determined randomly, which forces them to be ready at any time?
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
I believe it is predetermined.
Executive Director, Official Languages, Treasury Board Secretariat
There may be emerging themes. We ensure that all are covered over three years. For example, at the time of the Vancouver Olympic Games, the selection of departments reflected the situation. We targeted to a greater degree institutions that had key roles to play in those events.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Thank you.
Four of the 59 institutions have not submitted a report to you. Have they complied with that requirement since then? Have they submitted a report to you?
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
They have to be asked to submit their report the following year. They are on our list for next year.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
This is quite incredible. If they are not even submitting the report to you, how can you check what they are doing? Whatever the case may be, I am quite surprised.
I am going to cite the example of a very troubling paragraph. On page 2, the report states, "A majority of institutions indicated that they have included language provisions in contracts and agreements signed with third parties acting on their behalf."
So this means that a minority are not doing that. It even seems to me that this is contrary to their obligations, which were established a very long time ago. They are required to do so in accordance with those obligations. This is troubling, isn't it? It implies that one-third can be called upon and yet not be asked to comply with the Official Languages Act? The fact that not all institutions are complying with the act is, in my view, very bad news. How can a minority not comply with those provisions?
What follows is even more disturbing, minister. The report states that "only a small proportion of the institutions have taken steps to ensure that the language provisions are implemented."
In other words, only a majority are requiring third parties to comply with the act. A minority of that majority, that is to say a small proportion, ensure that third parties comply with those provisions. I find this situation extremely troubling.
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Our obligation, of course, is to ensure that the Official Languages Act is part of the management of government. That management can be examined every year through a process.
Liberal
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
The report does not tell us that you have audited what is going on in those departments that require nothing.
Conservative
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
We should take a look at it. Our committee wants to know because that paragraph is very troubling.
Another paragraph is very troubling. At the end of the second paragraph on page 2, the report states:
...slightly less than the majority of institutions indicated that they include clear objectives regarding official languages in executives' and managers' performance agreements.
That means that the majority of institutions that you cover require nothing from their executives or managers in the way of performance objectives. Not only that, but what are the performance objectives of those institutions that require them? Are they performance objectives that the Treasury Board considers of good quality? What percentage of those managers have achieved those performance objectives? We have no idea. Do you know? Can you tell the committee what percentage of managers have achieved the performance objectives?
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
There are percentages in the annual report. Perhaps Mr. Tremblay could answer that.
Executive Director, Official Languages, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes. We see that the Treasury Board, the Office of the Chief Officer, has identified a subject that we believe is important and that shows that we have asked that question and honestly reported the results obtained, which already demonstrates the usefulness of our annual report, of the oversight we are conducting, since this committee asks us questions and asks the institutions questions.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
Pardon me, Mr. Tremblay. I am asking you questions because this troubles me. So don't tell me that your report is, in itself, a measure that we should find comforting. The report states that only a minority have established performance objectives. And you are unable to tell me how many people in that minority have achieved those objectives or whether the Treasury Board is satisfied with the quality of those objectives.
Executive Director, Official Languages, Treasury Board Secretariat
In the philosophy of human resource management in the public service, that is not our perception of the role we have. Our role is that of a leader that must make the departments, institutions, deputy ministers and official languages champions accountable. They have been informed of those results, which show that there is a horizontal challenge, like the other subject that we addressed earlier and for which we invite them to take the necessary steps. The fact that we have identified it emphasizes to them that this is an area requiring improvement. The champions therefore go back to the departments to play the role they have to play to ensure measures are taken.
Liberal
Stéphane Dion Liberal Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC
If you want to shake them up with this report, don't wrap it up in sugarcoated optimism, as is currently the case, by saying that everything is going very well; we have a few challenges to address. You have enormous challenges to address.
If only a minority have established performance objectives, and you are unable to tell us what percentage of them are achieving them, or whether those objectives seem professional, competent and demanding enough from the Treasury Board's standpoint...If you subsequently conduct no audits and are happy to receive the report and to pass it on to us, how do you think we will feel, if not very concerned about the way the Treasury Board closes its eyes to what is really happening on the ground?
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
That is not true, Mr. Dion. Our goal is to cooperate with all departments to improve our results in achieving those objectives.
Our goal is to help the departments, in their responsibilities, apply the Official Languages Act. That's our goal. As I've outlined, we have various tools in our toolbox to help us do that. It's completely unrealistic for us to subvert the responsibility of each individual department to meet its goals. That's the department's responsibility. We play an oversight function, as does the Commissioner of Official Languages. We do our role, and then they have to fix what they have to fix.
Conservative
Bernard Trottier Conservative Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here this morning, minister. I know you are very busy with the major changes you are trying to implement within the public service. Your appearance here this morning is very much appreciated.
I would like to talk to you about part V of the act, regarding the public service and language of work. I know the annual report provides an overview of the ways in which the institutions have created a working environment that enables bilingualism to develop. The report also states that there has been constant progress in the implementation of part V.
Could you tell us more about the measures that certain institutions have put in place to ensure and encourage the use of both official languages in the workplace?
Conservative
Tony Clement Conservative Parry Sound—Muskoka, ON
Yes. As you said, there has been progress. The figures show that both official languages are being used more than five or six years ago.
As I said at the start of the meeting, there are tools that we can use to cooperate with the departments. For example, there is the forum for the public service and directors general, the purpose of which is to give them more tools. We celebrate the progress that has been made, of course. There is assistance in implementing the Official Languages Act. All the tools help us achieve our objectives. There is also cooperation in giving the departments more tools.
Daphne, is there anything else?
Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat
Yes. In our activities with the interdepartmental committees, there are examples of best practices in the departments, particularly the use and conduct of senior management meetings in English during one week and in French the following week. That is a best practice.
There is also the fact that an employee may have a partner who speaks his or her second language. We call that a language buddy. That enables that employee to improve his or her second language.
Perhaps Marc can provide other examples of best practices.
