Official Languages Committee on Oct. 25th, 2012

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Chair, I thank the honourable member for his question.

I would like to mention something I found fairly frustrating with respect to the interpretation of the census data. It's the obsession with percentages.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

If I may, Mr. Fraser, I would like to say that, even in terms of numbers, the growth is ridiculous. You're right, there is growth, but it goes from 2,561,955 to 2,584,680. It is almost within the margin of error. There is no change, even in terms of the raw numbers.

[Graham Fraser]

That's a good point. But, based only on…

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

If it was only small variations, there wouldn't be anything to worry about, I agree. But we are losing almost a whole percentage point. It went from 10.8% to 10.2%. If you are talking about the proportion, that is more than a percentage point, and that is close to 10% in four years. With respect to numbers, we are just treading water.

[Graham Fraser]

I agree, we are at a standstill. But in terms of percentage, as a country, we cannot take in 250,000 people a year and still expect the same percentage, be it for the mother tongue, the language spoken at home…

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I'm sorry for interrupting you, but I do not like the answer you're giving. We are facing a failure. We need to call a spade a spade. The evidence is that, according to a study that has not yet been made public but that was mentioned in the Globe and Mail, this is affecting young people. We can see this drop even in our young people and it is having an impact. The percentage of young people outside of Quebec who can speak French went from 15.2% to 11.4%, in four years.

[Graham Fraser]

Clearly in light of this extraordinary challenge of being a receiving country, we need to accelerate the process and invest more. But it is important to acknowledge at the same time that, based on the census data, more people speak French in Quebec and outside Quebec, and more people are bilingual. However, the arrival of 1,250,000 people since the last census has clearly had an impact on the percentages.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I would accept that answer if we were talking about the mother tongue, but not when it has to do with learning French. Everyone can learn French.

In my riding, some new immigrants speak three languages: English, French and their mother tongue. I am talking here about young people. The older people often barely speak English and French. But the young, 19-year-olds from Armenia and Maghreb or anywhere else are impressive. So people can learn three languages. It's not the end of the world.

[Graham Fraser]

I agree.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

But there is no leadership.

[Graham Fraser]

I quite agree, and that is why we made that recommendation about close collaboration between the federal government, the provinces and the universities to increase opportunities to learn a second language outside the classroom.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

My second question is the following.

With respect to complaints, a decrease seems good. The complaints received went from 1,729 to 643 in two years. Is that due to what we are hearing on the ground? Here is my fear. Would it be due to the fact that it is taking longer and longer to process complaints, which is deterring people from complaining?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Dion.

Mr. Fraser, you have the floor.

[Graham Fraser]

I don't accept that it is taking longer. In fact, we have introduced service standards to ensure that complaints are handled within an appropriate period of time. We are seeing that there are more complaints being made with on complex topics, relating to part VII, for example, where the complaints make up only 13% of the total, but require much more time to process.

What has in part influenced the decrease over the past two years is that there were a larger number of complaints previously about specific incidents. I think the Aveos issue led to 400 complaints. There were 800 complaints last year regarding Radio-Canada in Windsor.

It is very difficult to explain exactly why there has been a decrease.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Do you have official numbers regarding the waiting time for processing complaints?

[Graham Fraser]

We can provide them.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

The committee would like to have them, I'm sure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Trottier, the floor is yours.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Fraser, I would like to thank you and your colleagues for being here.

As you know, I am well aware of the often precarious situation of the francophone population outside Quebec. I liked your comment about not being obsessed with percentages when we look at the census data. In fact, since 2006, the actual number of francophones outside Quebec has increased. This tells me that the francophone population outside Quebec is doing fairly well.

As you said, when we think about the home countries of immigrants coming to Canada, we see that the Philippines is now the largest country. There is also China and India. These are countries where French isn't really spoken. No matter what the first language of immigrants from India is, they speak English, or English is their second language. We must be realistic, after all.

When we are talking about the services offered to francophones outside Quebec, is the government doing well? Have they been offered services of the public service in the past five years? What about more optional services and cultural support, for example? Has significant progress been made in the last five years?

[Graham Fraser]

You have studied the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality in detail, which includes close to $250,000 for culture. With respect to services, we are still seeing, through the complaints received, that Air Canada and Canada Post continue to have problems meeting their obligations.

As for some other departments, I have found that it all depends on the leadership and commitment of the senior executives. Some organizations, such as the Canada Border Services Agency, are committed to making improvements. They have an action plan and are making specific efforts to improve their performance.

When there is a change and less commitment to the obligations regarding linguistic duality, problems surface fairly quickly in the capacity to deliver services. The employees decode messages from upper management very quickly. If management doesn't take the issue seriously, the employees quickly understand that.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

On page 12, the Molson Foundation scholarships and other scholarships from the government are mentioned. I think that's very important for high school and university students. The francophone population outside Quebec can benefit from those scholarships, but should other populations be targeted instead? What can be done to target Canadians without an education or those who are not from a francophone family?

[Graham Fraser]

The Molson scholarships are funded by the Molson Foundation. The foundation gives a certain amount of money to anglophone students who decide to study at the Université Laval. Those students greatly benefit from the experience. I think that's a great model.

I'm always very inspired by the European example provided by the Erasmus Mundus program and by the considerable investment of the European community. Thousands of European students receive funding to study in another European country. Here, in Canada, there are often problems in terms of course equivalencies or course recognition. So there are still obstacles to those kinds of exchange programs. I think that increased investment in immersion and scholarships is a positive move.

The University of Ottawa also offers scholarships to students in post-secondary immersion. Those students greatly appreciate the financial assistance. Yesterday evening, I met two parliamentary interns who had both graduated from that program at the University of Ottawa. They thought the experience was incredible.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

The media, especially television, constitute another shortcoming that often affects francophones outside Quebec. Recently, the Prime Minister announced support for TV5 when it comes to Canadian productions.

Do you think access to a francophone television station is important?

[Graham Fraser]

I think it's extremely important. TV5, TFO and Radio-Canada are some of the examples. People often underestimate the impact of Radio-Canada in official language minority communities where that station becomes almost like community radio.

In addition, discussions are ongoing to create a television network for and by francophones outside Quebec. I have been following the progress of that project with great interest. I cannot comment on this directly, but I can say that, for minority families, access to a media environment at home is very important for maintaining the language.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay. Thank you.

Mr. Lauzon, go ahead.