Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2012

[Graham Fraser]

Certainly, the technology makes all this very easy. It's important to remember that, when primary and high schools are involved, it comes under the provinces. That's why I was careful to say that the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages should work with the provinces and post-secondary institutions to increase the number of courses.

I am stressing the role of post-secondary institutions, but I could also mention that the first commissioner of official languages, Keith Spicer, created a game for young people called "O Canada" that was available in schools across the country. It was the old technology. It had a 45 rpm record in a sleeve. I think there are now other technological means to encourage students in this respect.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Commissioner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Monsieur Dion.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Commissioner, Ms. Charlebois, Mr. Giguère and Ms. Tremblay, thank you. You have submitted a document that was really very well done. It seems to me that it points in two directions. First, we need to prepare the ground. Second, we will need to find a symbolic event, which will probably not have the same impact as Expo 67—that's hard to beat—but that will be somewhat inspirational. What you are saying is very interesting, especially when you remind us that this paved the way for the Official Languages Act.

[Graham Fraser]

I can speak about this because I was there and was struck by the linguistic duality of the site.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

With respect to paving the way, you heard my colleague, Mr. Godin, raise some concerns about the government's direction regarding official languages. The next Roadmap will be very important for creating this feeling that we are working for the bilingualism of our country instead of abandoning it.

There will be a lot of cuts. Are you equipped to follow up on the impact of these cuts on official language communities?

[Graham Fraser]

That's a very good question. We are trying to be proactive with respect to foreseeable events. That was the case of the Olympic Games and the Pan-American Games, and this is now the case for the 2017 celebrations. However, when there are structural changes, budget cuts or changes in direction, that often is felt across the federal government structure, and we have to respond in a reactive way.

My role as ombudsman, which involves investigating complaints, includes confidentiality requirements related to those complaints. It isn't necessarily the easiest way of preventing the system from breaking down, since there must first be a complaint and then, we must properly investigate it. We need to communicate the results to the institution and to the complainant, and we have to draft a final report.

Take for example changes in language training. It's more difficult because the responsibility is now somewhat decentralized among the departments and among the managers within the departments. We cannot be everywhere, but we try, using our studies as this tool, to determine what the impacts of the change in approach were.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

I hear you, Mr. Commissioner, but what you are saying gives me the impression that you aren't equipped. If you only react to complaints on a case-by-case basis, you lose the overall perspective.

For example, if the Department of Citizenship and Immigration centralizes its decisions and takes some latitude away from the provinces, the Franco-Manitobans may be less able to attract immigrants to their province. But you cannot grasp all that. You aren't set up to do so.

[Graham Fraser]

It isn't necessarily a matter of being equipped. Rather, it's the very nature of the organization involved, here.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Yes, but does your mandate not include warning the government of this type of problem before it happens?

[Graham Fraser]

Yes, and I do my best to fulfill that mandate. I am trying to be as proactive as possible.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

It's a serious concern that inspired the report by the Liberal Party of Canada, complementary to the report by the Standing Committee on Official Languages on the Roadmap. The traceability of the funds poses a real problem that, during a period of budget cuts, may hit numerous services hard. As you said, it could create a very poor atmosphere between now and 2017.

Concerning your two recommendations, which are repeated in the Liberal Party's complementary report, did you have an opportunity to sit down with the minister to see whether the government was interested in doubling the number of young Canadians who take part in language exchanges every year, as well as launching a true negotiation with the provinces to have them strengthen French, not only in immersion schools, but in regular schools, as well? There is no obligation for this in western Ontario.

Does the government seem interested in reacting favourably to these two recommendations?

[Graham Fraser]

As part of tabling the annual report, I met with the minister—as well as other ministers, as I do every year—to inform him of these recommendations. However, it was really an initial overview. I have not attended any other meetings since. The government has not indicated to us whether it accepted or refused the recommendations.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Does your office keep a record of its recommendations and whether they have been accepted or refused by the government over the years?

[Graham Fraser]

Yes, I think it was at your request that we do that.

[Sylvain Giguère, Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Communications Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Two or three weeks ago, we sent the chair a copy of the follow-up on the recommendations in the past three years.

Obviously, it is too early to do a follow-up. Getting a reaction takes some time.

[Stéphane Dion, Liberal, Saint-Laurent—Cartierville, QC]

Mr. Chair, will we be able to get access to the record?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We'll check. I don't think we received it.

Did you send it to the clerk or to my office?

[Sylvain Giguère]

We sent it to your office.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I will follow up with my staff to make sure it's distributed to members of the committee.

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dion.

Mr. Trottier, you have the floor.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the representatives of the Commissioner's office for being here this morning. Once again, it was an excellent presentation. It did a good job of putting into context what we are trying to do for the celebrations for the 150^th anniversary.

Mr. Commissioner, I would like to hear your comments on the recent census and on Statistics Canada's analysis showing that the francophone population outside Quebec is doing quite well. We note that certain forces are impossible to overlook, such as birth rate and immigration from a number of countries.

Will that influence how we are going to celebrate the 150^th anniversary? In Toronto, you do see this in the streets. Immigrants come from a wide array of countries. Even the francophone population is made up more and more of African immigrants. Will this new wave of francophone immigrants influence how we celebrate francophonie in Canada?

[Graham Fraser]

My reaction to the census was fairly positive, given that, as you said, there has been an increase in the number of francophones both in and outside Quebec. Those who have negative things to say after each census had a little more difficulty this time saying that this is the end of French outside Quebec, and that French was fundamentally threatened. To be honest, there is some stability and even growth in the communities.

As for the country's diversity and immigration, I believe that we cannot welcome 250,000 newcomers to Canada every year and maintain the same percentage of individuals who have English or French as their mother tongue. It's a question of math. However, these anniversaries are particularly significant for telling Canada's story to those who have not lived it or learned it in school. I think public history, if I may say so, is becoming increasingly important for our country, a country that welcomes immigrants.

It is becoming more important for minority institutions to have a certain visibility. I read the transcript of the testimony of Anthony Wilson-Smith, the president of the Historica-Dominion Institute, who said before this committee that he hears more people speaking Russian in Toronto than French. This is someone who speaks a refined French. But in Toronto, there are a number of francophone institutions around Yonge and College. I think it's important to target these institutions, to have a kind of critical mass of francophone institutions that could even have an influence on the surrounding cafés and public spaces.

There are some historical reasons to explain why the francophone communities in Canada, the ones outside Quebec, are fairly invisible. Among others, there were waves of populations that arrived at different times, and a certain hostility was felt in certain periods. Even when the francophone communities are almost the majority, there is very little signage and public statements. One of the challenges is ensuring that these public spaces, these institutions and these communities are more visible. When francophone immigrants from Mali, Ivory Coast or Senegal arrive in Toronto, they should be able to see that there are francophone community centres and that French is given some visibility in certain parts of the city.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

At the same time, we don't want to put them in ghettos.

[Graham Fraser]

No, no. I think it's possible to give greater visibility to the francophone community resources that exist in Toronto. In any case, the price of housing in Toronto means that francophone immigrants who arrive are looking for housing pretty much everywhere. They don't have the luxury of arriving all at the same time and settling in the same community.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.