Official Languages Committee on Oct. 18th, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Today is Tuesday, October 18, 2011, and I welcome you to the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This is our seventh meeting. We are here pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) to study the evaluation of the Roadmap, to improve programs and service delivery.

We are welcoming two public servants from the Department of Canadian Heritage, Mr. Tom Scrimger, assistant deputy minister of Canadian Heritage, and Mr. Jean-Pierre Gauthier, senior director of the Official Languages Secretariat.

Before we begin this morning, I think there's some consensus on the committee to deal with the four motions that the clerk and the chair have been given notice for.

So I give the floor to Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, there is a consensus. It involves the motion of Mr. Mauril Bélanger and the motion of Mr. Jacques Gourde.

Also, I don't know if I should say this right now, but we are requesting an adjournment at 9:50 a.m. We have a consensus on that as well. It is because of the report of the Commissioner of Official Languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I received four motions.

So, gentlemen, perhaps you could allow us to dispose of these quickly. We'll deal with them in the order in which I received them. We'll begin with the motion from Mauril Bélanger.

Mr. Bélanger, could you move your motion and speak to it briefly?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Does it involve the request to have Mr. Malavoy appear before us?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I oppose Mr. Gourde's motion, Mr. Chair. He wants both people to appear together. I have no objection to Mr. Malavoy's appearance lasting only one hour. But the appearance of the people from Saskatchewan may run longer than an hour. It is very complicated, even controversial. I think that an hour would not do the francophone community of Saskatchewan justice. I cannot support the idea of having the two appear at the same time. I am going to propose my motion and we will see what comes of it.

I propose that the committee agree to meet with Mr. Malavoy by December 15.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

There's a motion.

We have Mr. Bélanger's motion.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I would like to propose a friendly amendment to Mr. Béranger. I understand what you are saying but, in a pinch, we can always invite them to appear before the committee again.

We would also like Mr. Yvan Lebel, the president of the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises, to appear at the same committee meeting. I understand your apprehension, but we can invite them again to another session.

My amendment would replace the expression "the request … to appear" with the expression "the request … that both appear". So the motion would read as follows:

That the committee accepts the request of Mr. Jean Malavoy, General Secretary of the Table de concertation du livre franco-ontarien, and the request of Mr. Yvan LeBel, President of the Conseil des écoles fransaskoises, to appear before the committee, and that both appear on December 13, 2011.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have an amendment from Mr. Gourde. Is there any discussion on this amendment?

Mr. Bélanger, you have the floor.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

This is not a friendly amendment, Mr. Chair. We have given the people of Saskatchewan enough of a runaround. Because of some kind of procedural error, they already thought they had been invited to appear. Furthermore, they were here, in Ottawa, and we could have taken advantage of the opportunity to meet with them. The government party refused and said that we did not have to meet with them at that point, when they had nothing on the agenda. We preferred not to hold a meeting and, now, we want to wedge them into a one-hour appearance.

Mr. Chair, the francophone community of Saskatchewan deserves more than one hour. Their situation is very complicated. Giving them just one hour will not do them justice. I cannot accept this. It's minimizing the real problems of an entire community. I do not see why we are sending this message.

I hope that the parliamentary secretary will withdraw his motion to give them one hour, even if we have to combine Mr. Malavoy's hour with another hour at another time. I have no problem with that. I know that file and we won't need two hours to deal with it, I recognize that. But I find the message we are sending to Saskatchewan dreadful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Would any other committee members like to speak to this amendment?

Okay, I'll call the vote. All those in favour of the amendment moved by Monsieur Gourde?

Mr. Dykstra, you cannot vote.

There's a tie. I'm going to break the tie in favour of the government, because that's normally what would happen here.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Now we're back to the main motion as amended.

Is there any discussion on the main motion as amended?

Yes, Monsieur Godin, on a point of order.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like to check whether tilting the balance to the government side in the event of a tie is the normal procedure. The chair is supposed to be impartial and, in this case, he must make a decision. It is too easy to simply say that it's automatic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

It is a normal procedure. I spoke with the clerk before we went to the vote. Other people also told me that, in these situations, the decision is up to the chair.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Do you always support the government?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

No, normally you break a tie to continue debate in the House, to continue the functioning of the status quo.

In this particular situation, because there's no relevance to that rule, I'm trying to do what's less disruptive to the committee. The fact is that the government has the majority on the committee, so in my view the proper way to proceed is to vote with the government because that's normally what would happen in this situation.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I would hope that would not stand as an unsaid rule of the committee, Mr. Chairman, because then we know what we're in for.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I would hope you'd have more faith in your chair than that, Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I used to.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

If you wish to challenge the chair, you can go right ahead.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay.

Monsieur Lauzon.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I don't think that you, as a chair, have to explain when you vote. I don't explain why I vote and I don't think you should have to either.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Well, I—

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think if we have to question procedures, etc., every time we lose a vote, we're going to have an awfully uncooperative committee. I think we have to get together here, and let's advance the agenda. Let's not nitpick on every decision; let's move forward.