Official Languages Committee on April 25th, 2013

[James Shea]

I don't want to speak for school divisions, but if you have an English language school that has perhaps 100 students, and the next nearest school might be 50 or 80 kilometres away, the element of even being transported to another school for another program is not necessarily possible. That school community has to take a decision whether they want enriched French or advanced French. It's kind of a one-size-fits-all, but the reality is children learn at different rates. If this school community is going to offer a dual-track program, and that's how you address it, that's a function of having additional resources, and that function is having additional teachers to be able to support that. That's one of the issues and one of the concerns.

You just can't write off 100 children who are in an English language school who require French language instruction to be able to graduate high school. In a sense, it's a barrier to their completing high school, and that's a travesty—

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Yes, I understand what you're—

[James Shea]

—notwithstanding where, and recognizing that there are other challenges in the province in which I live that are quite significant with respect to language.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I will interrupt you here, Mr. Shea, because I do understand the point you're making. In my riding, I have the Portneuf Elementary School. There are 80 students so I do know a bit of the challenges there.

I would like to hear from Madam Bourbonnais or Mr. Le Dorze.

Both of you may answer.

[Philippe Le Dorze]

First of all, Ms. Michaud, it is up to the provinces to define immersion programs. At the national level, we can definitely propose best practices for immersion programs from kindergarten to grade 12. It would be up to the provinces to implement them and to show leadership in that area rather than show tolerance toward school boards that want to create French immersion programs.

Remember that French immersion was created because parents demanded it. Parents associated with Canadian Parents for French asked the school boards to create French immersion. It was not the school boards that decided, out of any great generosity, to create French immersion. It was the parents who demanded it.

Perhaps it is time for the provinces to provide a framework for what already exists and to clarify how things should be in each of them, with the idea of supporting—

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

You talked about the broader framework that is used in Europe, the CECR. It could be adopted as a framework for determining what really constitutes bilingualism. Each province and territory could be allowed to decide on how to achieve that standard, which might be adopted in Canada. That is what I understand from your remarks. Is that correct?

[Philippe Le Dorze]

Absolutely.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you very much.

Do I have any time left to ask another question?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Briefly.

[Élaine Michaud, NDP, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

All right.

I am going to come back to you, Ms. Bourbonnais.

You told us about the enrolment of newcomers in immersion programs. Let us set aside for the moment the lack of information provided before or at the time of their arrival. Tell me instead what challenges those students face once they enter an immersion class.

[Chantal Bourbonnais]

I do not think I have a list of specific challenges. Immigrant children adapt to immersion programs very well, often better than others. They do well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

All right, thank you.

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the witnesses for being here today.

A special welcome to Mr. Le Dorze, since he works in my riding. This is very important for children.

You mentioned a shortage of bilingual teachers. This is a very serious problem. You said that the schools sometimes hired teachers who did not have French-language skills, as in the case of a completely anglophone mother whose two children study in an immersion program. That is serious.

What do you think is the solution to that?

Mr. Le Dorze, perhaps you could answer that question since it is based on one of your comments.

[Philippe Le Dorze]

We could advertise the wonderful teaching profession and talk, for example, about the opportunities available to high school students and much more quickly identify those who might be interested in that profession. The sooner they know it, the sooner they will make an effort to develop their skills and the more qualified people we will have who intend to enter that noble profession. That could help offset the shortage of immersion teachers.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you.

What do you think, Mr. Thompson?

[Stephen Thompson]

Just thinking back to the questions from Monsieur Dion, and also from Mr. Benskin and Mr. Galipeau, to your question, ma'am, about what the federal government can do, there are lots of areas where the federal government works that are not the federal government's jurisdiction. The federal spending power is all over Canadian politics.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes.

[Stephen Thompson]

Education is a provincial responsibility, no question, but not at the college level and not at the university level.

Where can the federal government directly reach into? It can directly reach into the colleges and it can directly reach into the universities. The federal government already spends money in universities for specific research questions or specific areas of federal interest.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

We already spend money on French immersion, too, so it's a very important thing.

[Stephen Thompson]

You do, ma'am, but through the provinces.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes. Oh, I know we do a lot through the provinces.

[Stephen Thompson]

What I'm saying is that if it's a question of where the federal government can reach out to make a direct impact on the production of qualified immersion teachers, it's in teachers colleges, in Canadian universities.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

All right.

My next question concerns the possibility of sharing professional development opportunities. Once again, I refer to Mr. Le Dorze's comments. He said that it would be desirable to offer teachers professional development opportunities during working hours. It is clear in my mind that this is essential in all professions.

We have school divisions in Manitoba, such as the Pembina Trails Division. I was previously chair of the Winnipeg School Division. We also have the DSFM, which offers a program entirely in French. Is it possible to share professional development opportunities for teachers?

I would like to hear your comments, sir.

[Philippe Le Dorze]

Yes, that is done. On February 3, 2014, the Éducateurs et éducatrices francophones du Manitoba, the EFM, and an agency of the Manitoba Teachers' Association are organizing a training day on the theme of French-language instruction. All teachers in the province in immersion and French as a first language are invited.

This is a recent initiative. It was held two years ago. The day was previously intended for immersion teachers. However, the EFM expanded it to involve French-language instruction.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, sir.