Official Languages Committee on April 25th, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Dionne Labelle, you have the floor.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here.

According to a study conducted by the Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers, there is a shortage of immersion teachers. However, there is also another important factor, the drop-out rate among practitioners, which is approximately 30% in the first five years of their teaching career.

What happens? Why is the drop-out rate so high among immersion teachers?

[Philippe Le Dorze]

With your permission, I can answer your question, Mr. Dionne Labelle.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, do ahead.

[Philippe Le Dorze]

The drop-out rates are typically the same for all programs. This is a phenomenon among new teachers. It affects both new immersion teachers and those in the French-language and English-language programs.

The statistics often vary from region to region. We know, for example, that the drop-out rate does not reach these thresholds among graduates from the Université de Saint-Boniface.

Mr. Karsenti's study was conducted three years ago, I believe, and it generally describes what is happening. The profession has some work to do to provide better reception and treatment for new teachers. It must really be a profession of learners. It must also acknowledge that new teachers are in the position of learning. We need to manage this aspect more effectively.

This is not the situation of second-language immersion programs alone.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I would nevertheless like to continue on this subject.

In your study, you identify five probable causes for teachers dropping out of immersion education.

The first were the difficult working conditions involved in immersion and instruction in French as a second language, the lack of teaching resources and the relationship challenges involved in teaching. There was also class management, as teachers sometimes have difficult clienteles. I imagine this is common in other fields. There was also initial training and the teacher's choice of career.

Is the association currently addressing these factors? Is it trying to solve some of the problems identified in the study?

[Philippe Le Dorze]

We have established forums for new teachers. These are professional development opportunities for teachers who have recently started working. We held one in Newfoundland and Labrador in 2010, I believe, and another one in the Moncton area. We offer professional development opportunities to new teachers to meet some of their needs in managing the challenges they face in immersion classes.

So we are working to that end, but it is also up to the school boards offering immersion to work along the same lines.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Does the Roadmap for Canada's Linguistic Duality provide you with support to enable you to assist immersion teachers? Do you receive support?

[Philippe Le Dorze]

Yes, we have that support.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That is good.

I have no more questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Dionne Labelle.

Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one question, and it's specifically in relation to page 4 and students with learning difficulties.

My daughter's in grade 1 in French immersion in Ontario. We're very proud of her. You identified a perception that many have about French immersion, that it can be for gifted children or for children without learning disabilities. How does your association continue to update your teachers on how to address the needs of students with learning disabilities within an immersion classroom?

[Philippe Le Dorze]

Certainly ACPI promotes immersion for all learners. We get the message out that teachers need to be inclusive and to recognize that decisions either to stay in the program or to leave it belong strictly to families and not to anybody else. Those put teachers in a position of conflict of interest, which is something they should never put themselves in.

We try to educate our educators. Last Friday we had a conference in our school division with somebody from the States who does research on all the good things that are occurring to youngsters who are learning a second language, who, even though they struggle, achieve similar or better results than they would achieve if they were in a one language program. We're promoting the news that learning a second language is actually really positive for all learners, even those who are struggling. Learning that second language, even though you're struggling, is still positive. It may even be better for you than not struggling and learning just one language.

A lot of the challenges stem from the wrong metaphor. People think that languages occupy space in the brain, so if you have two languages, your brain is overwhelmed. Well, that's not the right metaphor for the brain. The brain works differently. Having two languages is actually a good thing. Even though you're struggling, learning that second language makes you better and stronger in many different ways, cognitively included.

ACPI recognizes that and works to educate teachers and parents in that sense. The press is being quite helpful with that, pointing out a lot of studies that show that learning languages is extremely positive in all facets. We're learning more and more as we go on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. O'Toole, for your question, and Mr. Le Dorze, for your answer.

We will suspend briefly for a couple of minutes to allow our witnesses to depart.

I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony.

Thank you very much.

[Proceedings continue in camera]