Evidence of meeting #83 for Official Languages in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was reports.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Lisa Marie Perkins  President, National Office, Canadian Parents for French
Robert Rothon  Executive Director, National Office, Canadian Parents for French
Hubert Lussier  Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage
Jean-Pierre Gauthier  Director General, Official Languages Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage
Yvan Déry  Director, Policy and Research, Official Languages Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage

May 28th, 2013 / 3:40 p.m.

Executive Director, National Office, Canadian Parents for French

Robert Rothon

It must be said that some school boards have still managed to include children of immigrant families in French as a second language courses. If the welcome mat is out and appropriate policies are in place, immigrant populations will be interested and will definitely learn both of Canada's official languages. There is no problem with that.

Frankly, as Ms. Perkins pointed out, the real challenge is getting provincial and territorial policies aligned. So, for example, if you're a school district and you receive ESL funding, it doesn't exclude you from receiving FSL funding for the same type of student. There are some real challenges there.

However, I think it's a crucial long-term goal to make sure that linguistic duality is part of the immigrant youth experience.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Madam Perkins and Mr. Rothon, for your opening speech and also for this brief question.

We appreciate your opening statement to our committee, and we look forward to continuing with questions for your colleague after the votes. We will reconvene here at 4:30.

The bells and the lights are going for the votes, so without further ado, we will suspend.

4:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

We now resume the 83rd meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

I welcome the officials from the Department of Canadian Heritage. They are Mr. Lussier, Mr. Gauthier and Mr. Déry.

You have the floor for your presentation.

4:35 p.m.

Hubert Lussier Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to say a few words before handing things over to my colleague Jean-Pierre Gauthier, who will make the presentation.

I would certainly like to thank you for giving us the opportunity to talk about second languages, a key topic for the Department of Canadian Heritage for many years. My colleagues Jean-Pierre Gauthier, Director General of the Official Languages Branch, and Yvan Déry, Director of Policy and Research in the Official Languages Branch of the Department of Canadian Heritage, are with me today to answer your questions.

With your permission, I'd like to explain the context briefly of what Jean-Pierre is going to speak about. The presentation he's going to make deals with minority language as well as second language education.

As you know, minority language education refers to the schooling of students of official language minority communities, therefore those who receive English schooling in Quebec and French elsewhere in Canada.

Although second official language learning and official language minority education are two distinct lines of business, with two different complementary objectives that belong to two separate programs at Canadian Heritage, from the point of view of their delivery mechanisms and the requirement for a strong collaboration with provinces and territories, they follow the same logic and use common instruments. Therefore, we will make a presentation in the following fashion.

4:35 p.m.

Jean-Pierre Gauthier Director General, Official Languages Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage

My thanks to the members of the committee, and thank you, Mr. Chair. In order to maximize the time for questions, I propose to provide a brief overview of the presentation that has been circulated to you. Without further introduction, I will begin.

The first page of our presentation provides you with a reminder of the legal framework that governs minority language and second language education. Section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is also mentioned. This section defines the right of Canadians to have their children educated in their first official language.

We also mention that a provision of the Official Languages Act requires the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages to take the measures deemed necessary to assist the provinces to offer English- and French-speaking Canadians in minority situations an education in their own language and to provide young Canadians with an opportunity to learn their second official language. Those, therefore, are the bases on which the Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages may become involved in education matters, in collaboration with the provinces.

The next page tries to put things into context and to provide a little clarification on the existing mechanism that produces the agreements that we have with the provinces and territories on education matters.

The first thing to mention is that this collaboration has been in place for about 40 years, and it proceeds in two steps. The first step is to have an overall multilateral agreement with all the provinces and territories and the federal government to establish the baselines, to establish the allocation of resources, and to establish the key parameters collectively.

After that, as a second step, we have bilateral agreements that we negotiate with each province in turn. For these we have discussions with the respective provinces or territories to try to capture their objectives in terms of their education system and what they want to focus on in the coming term—

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Excuse me for interrupting, Mr. Gauthier.

Mr. Chair, is it possible for me to introduce a motion now?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

About what?

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I want to make a motion that we study the matter of the Maritime Rescue Centre in Quebec City.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

I am sorry, but it is not possible to do that, given that we have witnesses with us at the moment.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

My motion is out of order?

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Have you submitted a notice of motion to us? I don't think so.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I am sorry, Mr. Chair, but that notice of motion was submitted a long time ago.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

That notice of motion was submitted by Mr. Godin. But he is not here with us today. So you cannot present that motion at this time.

Besides, we have witnesses appearing before us.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I am sorry for the interruption.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Let me explain the situation we have at present.

Right now, we're under the routine motion adopted by the committee, which says that we're on reduced quorum. The chair will not allow any motions to be moved because we're simply on reduced quorum in order to receive witness testimony.

4:40 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

I understand your decision, Mr. Chair.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

The routine motion says:

That the Chair is authorized to hold meetings to receive evidence and to have that evidence printed when a quorum is not present, provided that at least four (4) members are present, including one (1) member of the opposition and one (1) member of the government party.

That's the basis on which I continued this meeting, so we didn't even have quorum to allow a motion to be moved. It's for those two reasons....

Basically, first, Mr. Godin is not with us at the moment, and second, we have a reduced quorum. That is why the motion is out of order at the present time.

Mr. Gauthier, you have the floor.

4:40 p.m.

Director General, Official Languages Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jean-Pierre Gauthier

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The multilateral protocol for agreements that we have in effect provides us with broad parameters. We negotiate bilateral agreements with each province according to their needs. On page 4, you see a quick overview of the content of the protocol for agreements.

First, the annual funding for immigration has been set at $259 million. You can see that the major part of the funding is set aside to support provinces in minority-language education or second-language learning. Those two aspects combined come to $234.5 million. A little less than 10% of the funding is allocated each year to two youth programs managed by the Council of Ministers of Education, Canada. These programs provide exchanges; they also allow language monitors to join teachers in classrooms in order to help with and enhance the teaching of the first or second language. That gives you an idea of the scope of the protocol for agreements in financial terms.

As we talk about the factors that go into the federal-provincial-territorial agreements, we must deal with the way in which the performance and the outcomes are evaluated. Page 5 explains that the agreement protocol sets out six outcome domains that are agreed with the provinces. Within those outcome domains, each province is asked, in each bilateral agreement, which initiatives it wishes to undertake in the areas of second-language or minority-language teaching. The table gives you some examples of the kinds of initiatives that provinces or territories can undertake in order to reflect the outcome domains identified in the agreement protocol.

Page 6 shows how the accountability system is subsequently structured. We are well aware that this is an area of provincial or territorial jurisdiction. The provinces therefore establish their priorities according to their overall priorities in the area of education. During the discussions that they have with us, the provinces also identify and specify performance targets and indicators that they are going to use. We document the objectives, the targets and the indicators as established by the provinces and we are content with them. Each year, we make sure that the funds spent by the provinces match the planning established under our agreements.

First, the provinces and territories submit annual financial reports. Every two years, we ask them to measure their progress in terms of their targets. A discussion between our offices and the provinces then takes place. The goal is to make sure that the progress and the efforts that have been made are fully measured.

In addition, you have the regular processes in the departments—that is, evaluations and internal audits—that are also applied to these agreements for these programs.

Finally, in terms of reporting, we have the annual reporting of the department, which captures the essence of our activities.

You'll find on pages 7 and 8 a selection of examples of those targets to illustrate a bit better what kinds of things we are talking about. If I take the first example, it will give you, for teaching of the second language, what kinds of targets have been established by, for example, the Northwest Territories with respect to the participation of students.

You have the target they set at the beginning of the agreement, and in the right-hand column you basically have the results of what they achieved so far, at the interim report stage, which is year two, 2010-11. We just concluded year four on March 31, and we're expecting reports from the provinces and territories that will give us a complete overview over the whole four years of the last protocol agreements we have.

Just in passing, you have the same thing on page 8, but this time it's for teaching in the minority language as part of the activities we have with provinces and territories. Again, it's a selection of targets and the kinds of achievements provinces have reported back to us in their biennial reports on progress and results.

Let us now move to pages 9 and 10. By taking a step back, we try to get an overall picture of which results and which achievements we can identify as activities in the area of second-language and minority-language learning.

On page 9, we can see the achievements in second-language education. About 2.4 million young Canadians are learning English or French as a second language. That is a little more than half the school population. We also see that immersion programs are highly popular, with strong growth and demand.

Among the achievements in the second-language area, we also see innovative second-language teaching methods like, for example, intensive learning in one language. At the moment, 8,000 students are involved in the provinces and territories.

We also see improvements in the measurement of learning, but that is an area that you have already heard about. This is the ability to properly measure and certify the level of language mastery attained by a student. In a second language, of course. Thought and work is needed in this area, and steps are being taken to properly measure the quality of the learning.

We can also see that particular attention is paid to exchanges and cultural activities in immersion in order to enrich the experience of learning a second language, so this is not simply an experience limited to a classroom.

The next page, page 10, shows more or less the same approach, but this time it deals with minority-language education. About 240,000 young Canadians are studying in their language in a minority situation. This student population is increasing, whereas the general student population across the country is dropping slightly. This is encouraging.

We see that schools want to play a greater role in their communities. They want to be part of community life. So a number of schools also want to become involved in community activities after school hours or on weekends. They want to provide services like public libraries, for example. To the extent possible, things are brought together in different facilities. You will see figures from various places, like the 37 community learning centres in Quebec, where there is an attempt to play a greater role in minority situation schools. They do not want to limit themselves to teaching the Department of Education's program. They want the school to play a role in the community as well.

Efforts are also being made a post-secondary level. You can see in the presentation that there are programs in more than 40 colleges and universities in minority situations. I would also like to highlight the work that is being done by our colleagues at Health Canada and Justice Canada, each of which is trying, in its own area of activity, to develop a program in various colleges and universities.

There is a list of other more specific achievements at the bottom of the page, but I will not spend time describing them. I will quickly wrap up with the last page.

In short, the current protocol agreements that we have in place ended on March 31 of this year. That was the end of the fourth year. We are well advanced in negotiating the next agreement, which will be for five years. We've pretty much finished, so we're optimistic that we will have the agreement in place. That will set the stage to get discussions going with the various provinces and territories to establish a bilateral agreement. That is the document by which we gain authority to start funding their activities, whether it be for second language learning or minority schools.

I will stop at this point.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Michael Chong

Thank you, Mr. Gauthier and Mr. Lussier.

Mr. Labelle, you have 3 minutes left.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, my apologies for my intervention. It had more to do with politics than with administration.

In the agreement protocol, I see that there is a financial commitment for $1.34 billion over five years. Is that correct?

4:50 p.m.

Director General, Official Languages Branch, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jean-Pierre Gauthier

I think that it is actually over four years.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

Right.

From 2009 to 2013; that is four years, of course.

In terms of the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality, government announcements mention an investment of $265 million over five years to support minority-language teaching and $175 million for second-language teaching.

As you see the figures, are the financial commitments in the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality included in the $1.34 billion? Or are they additional enhancements that will be added to the $1.34 billion?

The Roadmap for Linguistic Duality was intended to enhance the Department of Canadian Heritage's commitments to develop linguistic duality. Does the billion dollars include the money allocated by the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality?

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage

Hubert Lussier

I should first make it clear that the amount of $265 million that you mentioned will be spent each year for five years and will be invested in education. The amount that the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality provides for education represents about a third of the resources transferred to the provinces for education by the Department of Canadian Heritage.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Pierre Dionne Labelle NDP Rivière-du-Nord, QC

So, if I have it right, one third of the billion dollars comes from the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality.

Were the same amounts allocated in the first Roadmap for Linguistic Duality? Did one third of the amounts allocated come from the Roadmap for Linguistic Duality?

4:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Citizenship and Heritage, Department of Canadian Heritage

Hubert Lussier

Yes, it is the same thing.