Official Languages Committee on June 13th, 2013

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Excuse me. The answer is yes.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Since 2001, the decline in the number of individuals with French as a mother tongue in New Brunswick amounts to that number.

We do not know if these 3,600 people end up in francophone communities. Do you have data on that?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

I have data indicating that in 2004, for instance, 68 francophone immigrants settled in New Brunswick compared to last year when 182 francophone immigrants settled there. That means a tripling in the number of francophone immigrants settled in New Brunswick since our government took office.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

With respect to the actual decline in the number of people with French as a mother tongue, which has been approximately 3,500 in 10 years, and considering the fact that there are 182 new francophones—and I am only referring to the situation in New Brunswick here—the official language minority community is still experiencing grave difficulties. Are the targets you proposed sufficient to reverse the trend and ensure that French, relative to general demographic growth, remains at the same ratio in the coming years?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Mr. Chairman, I am not aware of demographic figures for francophones in New Brunswick. I am the Minister of Immigration and, as such, I can tell you that we have seen a tripling in the number of francophone immigrants settling in New Brunswick since the current government took office. We are heading in the right direction and I hope we will continue to see an increase. That is our goal. We should not be ignoring the fact that things are headed in the right direction.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In your report on Plans and Priorities tabled in Parliament, francophone immigration was not indicated as being a priority. Why?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

Francophone immigration is always included within our publications and our objectives. The plan to increase francophone immigration outside of Quebec to 4.4% remains an important goal in all of our planning.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Out of the 10 main source countries for immigration to Canada, there is not a single francophone country. Would it be advantageous for us to target certain countries as being potential sources of francophone immigrants? If francophone immigration were really a priority, could that be a solution?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

In theory, yes, but the government does not decide how many immigrants come from a given country. We do not have a per country quota. Our system responds to those who apply for citizenship. So, if more francophone immigrants coming from francophone countries make applications, we will see an increase.

The important point with respect to Destination Canada is that it is the only program formally subsidized by my department that has targeted promotional activities throughout the world. This program is specifically offered to francophone immigrants.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Minister...

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Dionne Labelle.

We will now turn to Mr. O'Toole.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Minister, for your excellent remarks today.

You used the word “transformational”. That word is tossed around a lot, but I think in the last few years our immigration reforms truly are within that category and your leadership on that is appreciated.

Some of the statistics were quite startling to me and I'd like to probe a little further. Three times more to western Canada is understandable with the economic opportunities there, two times more to eastern Canada, but Ontario is down by one-quarter.

Is it the department's sense that this is almost entirely attributable to the economic malaise in Ontario?

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

That's a factor. It certainly played a role. I think it's primarily attributable, frankly, to our decision to reduce the number of immigrants selected according to the federal skilled worker program and shift those positions, as it were, over to the provincial nominee programs.

Basically, Mr. Chairman, the provincial nominee program was a tiny pilot project about seven or eight years ago. There were only a couple of thousand people arriving in that program. It was started mainly in Manitoba, but then other provinces started to see this as a very valuable tool where they could work with employers to select qualified immigrants. The western and Atlantic provinces got quite excited about this, and they asked for more and more spots to be allocated for the selection of immigrants.

Our government was quite happy to accommodate them. I mentioned the positive results we've seen from that program. The Ontario government for whatever reason chose not to participate in any meaningful way in the provincial nominee program. They basically said, “We don't need this. We've relied in the past on the federal skilled worker program”. The train left the station on the provincial nominee program without Ontario being on board in any serious way. That's really what's responsible for the shift in immigration patterns. In addition, economic patterns have a lot to do with it.

This is not just a question of primary immigration but also secondary. Ontario has net secondary immigration. That is to say, a lot of people who come and settle in the GTA, for example, then move to the west, particularly to Alberta, which has very large secondary immigration. Quebec has a certain amount, but a lot of Ontario immigrants end up moving west.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

We have a point of order from Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

With respect to immigrants arriving in Toronto and Alberta, is this related to official languages?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I have given committee members great latitude to ask questions of the witnesses and the minister and to give them an opportunity to respond. I have also given you this latitude at other meetings.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You have done it at other meetings, but not today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I will be giving Mr. O'Toole the same latitude today as well.

I've always given members a great deal of latitude in asking witnesses questions and the answers that are received. If the questions or answers are even tangentially related to the matter at hand, I've always allowed them. We believe in free speech and free expression in this country. We're all adults and can handle questions and answers.

I'm going to allow Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Kenney to continue with their line of questions and answers.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I appreciate that and I will remember your ruling. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I've ruled similarly, Mr. Godin, in the past. In fact, most of the time when these issues have been raised, they've been raised by government members, and I've always ruled in favour of giving members of the opposition that latitude. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, so I'm going to allow Mr. O'Toole and Mr. Kenney to continue.

Mr. O'Toole, you have the floor.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If my friend Mr. Godin had just been a tad more patient, but maybe he's following the lead of his leader.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

My second question was, after laying that groundwork in Ontario, Minister.... I know specifically a group involved with Maison de la Francophonie in Toronto, and—Mr. Dionne Labelle touched on this—there immigrants from several French African countries coming to Canada who are targeting and actually living in Toronto. So there are primary French speakers.

I'm wondering what role your department has in supporting centres like la Maison in Toronto, which provides a range of basic health information, access to justice, that sort of thing.

[Jason Kenney, Conservative, Calgary Southeast, AB]

We fund about 170 points of service is what we call them. They are typically non-profit organizations. I don't know about that particular group, but they are groups like it. They provide services to francophone immigrants, and these are outside of Quebec. I think this is a pretty clear indication of our commitment to support francophone immigrants outside Quebec.

Let me use that to segue back to the last question I received. The question was why we aren't doing more to increase francophone immigration from francophone countries. I pointed out that we don't choose how many immigrants come from a particular country. It's really a demand-driven immigration system. I don't sit down at the beginning of the year and say that we're going to take 10,000 from India and 20,000 from France. It doesn't work that way.

The only program we have currently that deliberately promotes Canada as a destination for immigration is destination Canada. It is done specifically in francophone countries—France, Belgium, and Tunisia—but it's also regional.

I'm pleased to announce to you, colleagues, that we are also going to be expanding a very important program that we developed in 2006 called the Canadian immigration integration project. This is pre-arrival orientation for selected economic immigrants. It's a two-day free seminar and personalized counselling after they have been selected for immigration but before they have arrived here, when they're wrapping up their affairs back home. This is helping them line up jobs in Canada, find housing, apply in advance for credential recognition for the professional licences. We now have it available to about 80% of our economic immigrants and are about to launch a pilot for this out of Paris to help serve our selected francophone immigrants coming to Canada.

Corinne, do you want to add something?

[Corinne Prince St-Amand, Director General, Integration and Foreign Credentials Referral Office, Department of Citizenship and Immigration]

Sure. Thank you.

The pilot is for this fiscal year, 2013-14. It will be run by the Association of Canadian Community Colleges. As Mr. Kenney has said, it will be available in Paris and in Brussels for individuals of francophone descent wishing to come to Canada and to settle in official language minority communities outside of Quebec.