Official Languages Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages, this Tuesday, February 25, 2014. This is our 12th meeting. We are here to study the economic situation of Canada's minority linguistic communities.

In front of us today, for an hour and a half, we have the Quebec Community Groups Network represented by Madam Martin-Laforge and Mr. Thompson.

We'll begin with an opening statement.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge, Director General, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Good morning, Mr. Chong, and members of the committee.

It's a pleasure to be here. It's been a while since we've come and we're glad to assist you in your study around the economic situation of Canada's linguistic minority communities.

For those of you new to the committee, the QCGN is a not-for-profit representative organization that acts as a centre of evidence-based expertise and collective action on the strategic issues affecting the development and vitality of Canada's English linguistic minority communities. We collectively refer to these as the English-speaking community of Quebec.

The QCGN's 41 members are not-for-profit community groups, most of which provide direct services to members of our community across the province. Some members work regionally providing broad-based services while others work in specific sectors: arts and culture, health, etc.

English-speaking Quebec is Canada's largest official language minority community with over 1,000,000 citizens whose first official language spoken is English. Although 84% of our community lives within the Montreal census metropolitan area, more than 210,000 community members live in other Quebec regions.

Bilingualism rates are high in our community compared to other English-speaking Canadian cohorts with an overall rate of 66% reporting knowledge of French and English during the 2011 census. That percentage increases to more than 80% among our English-speaking youth, reflecting the investment our community has made to ensure our children can live and work in French in Quebec.

These numbers also demonstrate that there are more than 360,000 members of our community without a knowledge of French and 20,000 English mother tongue youth between the ages of 18 and 24 without the ability to work in French in Quebec. That's a pretty big number even at 20,000.

The economic and employability impacts of these figures are profound. We urge the committee to invite community-based employability and entrepreneurship sector organizations like Youth Employment Services to provide detailed information on the challenges faced by young English-speaking Quebeckers.

YES will also be able to provide evidence regarding the challenges faced by English-speaking youth from outside the province and outside the country who come to Quebec for their education and fervently wish to stay in Quebec to live and raise families, but because of their employment situation they have to go somewhere else.

The Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation, CEDEC, is also a community leader with experience to assist you in this study.

Economic prosperity is one of the six priorities identified by the English-speaking community of Quebec in the 2012 to 2017 community development plan, which we previously presented to committee. Economic development and employability are woven throughout the plan and indeed are central to the vitality of any community.

The Government of Canada has committed significant resources to support our community's economic development, most recently in the road map for 2013-2018. Employment and Social Development Canada's enabling fund, the OLMC literacy and essential skills and social partnership initiatives, and the Canada Economic Development for Quebec Regions at $10.2 million are examples of important investments that are providing direct benefit to members of our community.

The investments being made by the Government of Canada in our community's economic development are being leveraged to enhance our community's vitality. We feel there is some room to make these resources more effective, however, and we'll talk about that in a moment.

We would like to highlight the successes of regionally based community groups like the Council for Anglophone Magdalen Islanders, CAMI, and the Coasters Association living on the lower north shore. These groups have established effective coordination through a cooperative network of partners for the economic development of their communities. The committee is encouraged to invite them to testify for this study and they have best practices to share and exciting stories.

The committee might consider inviting Quebec Essential Learning Alliance that amongst other things is working with public and private partners to qualify aboriginal youth in Quebec's north as commercial pilots. This is a very exciting initiative that demonstrates the direct contribution community groups can make to economic development and employability undertakings.

In January, the QCGN participated in an excellent dialogue session between ESDC and sector leaders from our community. Many topics of interest to the committee’s current study were covered, and we would like to highlight a few aspects.

First, the QCGN remains very interested in the evolution of the enabling fund, particularly following the recommendations of the fund’s summative evaluative findings regarding program relevance and performance, and the operations of the national committees that govern the resources. Best practices from the ground demonstrate that economic development and employability efforts are most effective when partnered and coordinated with a community’s overall efforts. Whereas these links do exist, they are by no means universal. Furthermore, there is room for improvement in the link between the enabling fund and its implementing partner and our community priorities and enabling strategies; we recognize that. For example, public consultation for the Canadian plan for economic development, CPED, for OLMCs—it's alphabet soup, I'm sorry—is now under way. This is a major policy initiative in a critical area of our community’s vitality, which could have far-reaching effects on a number of sectors. We must ensure that the link between the CPED and our community development plan is considered during the consultation’s planning and implementation.

Second, social financing was championed by the QCGN to this committee during its evaluative study of the previous road map. We were very pleased by the current road map’s social partnership initiative, and look forward to partnering with ESDC for the program’s implementation in our community. Social financing is a complex yet promising idea that could redefine the relationship between the public partner and the community sector. The committee might consider conducting a study on social financing within OLMCs once we have collectively developed expertise with this idea.

Third, labour market development is topical. We note our strong support for the Canada job grant program being delivered through Service Canada, since this is the only way to guarantee these services will be accessible in English to members of our community in Quebec.

We conclude our remarks by noting that successful economies are linked. The economic situation of our communities cannot be studied without understanding the economies of Quebec and Canada. When Quebec prospers, we prosper, and the corollary is true. Our community is an integral part of the economies of Canada and Quebec, and we are always seeking research that helps us demonstrate our contribution.

Thank you. We look forward to your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Madam.

We have one hour and 20 minutes for questions and comments.

We will begin with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I welcome Ms. Martin-Laforge, whom I have known for a number of years, and Mr. Thompson.

When the committee decided to do this study I was very pleased about it. The government could say that we did not say no. I think it goes hand in hand. We have minority communities across the country. We talk about culture and all kinds of stuff, and how do you go to school and keep your language, but at the end of the day you want a job. I think this study is important and I want to thank you for appearing in front of this committee so that we could discuss different things.

Where is it at now, for example, in your community? We could say about Montreal that there is a big difference if you look at the anglophones in Montreal compared to those of Rivière-au-Renard, Fox River. I remember when I went to Quebec to Rivière-au-Renard and they were talking about Fox River, and you could see the presence there. But I think you could compare a place like that with a francophone minority in Alberta, for example, or a francophone minority in B.C. or in Nova Scotia.

What do you see that the government could do in those regions to help youth stay in the region and have a job, or to do economic development in the region so the youth can be at ease and have a job and stay at home? Is your group close to them there? Do you find that the government is doing what needs to be done for them?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

First I'd like to say that Stephen Thompson, the director of policy, will be helping with some statistics along the way and in our answers to you.

Unemployment among youth and English-speaking Quebeckers generally is high. It's high not only in the regions; it's high in Montreal as well. We often say that Montreal is doing okay, but for youth, when we talk about them, there is a big issue around unemployment and underemployment. We can talk about statistics in a moment.

In the regions in Quebec, they are very interested in retention issues. You know, we can't keep our kids tied to a table in the basement. In Quebec, as in other OLMCs, parents expect their kids to have to go to school elsewhere, to have to go and study elsewhere, and to maybe find jobs elsewhere. The need for people in the region is to come back to jobs. Jobs have to be in the regions. They have to be good jobs, and they have to be jobs that take them somewhere.

I think you will have examples of work being done if you meet with the Coasters. There's a small population of Coasters close to Labrador doing some work in creating jobs. They do things around the berries, and they do innovative things around creating jobs. CAMI is the same thing.

The regions have a different kind of perspective around keeping their youth and their folks there. They know that they have to work with the majority community to create jobs for the region, not just for the anglophones but for the region. They are working together. We have some very good practices in the regions demonstrating how a municipality will be working with the majority community and with the minority community to create jobs. People have to speak French and people have to..... People work it out. In la Beauce they have to speak English as well.

We have a unique situation in Quebec around what we do in our regions around employment, employability, and entrepreneurship. That's one of the big areas that I believe the regions are working on—how to create the jobs through entrepreneurship.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

What tools has the Government of Canada made available to minority groups, such as anglophones in Quebec, to stimulate the economy? Are you aware of any?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

There is direct project funding available from the Quebec economic development program, $10.2 million over five years. That's of huge importance to our communities that can get projects. Many of the groups are working on projects as leverage with the provincial government or the municipal government. So the Quebec economic development program is really very important.

In terms of literacy skills, there's some work being done around leveraging there as well. The money that comes into Quebec usually is used to leverage other opportunities with other government money from the province. The key to our success is leveraging with the province. That's locally managed through groups locally. The enabling fund is very important to us as well, because the enabling fund will provide for partnerships. Those kinds of initiatives are important.

What I might say is that when the money comes directly to the community, it's a bit easier for us, rather than flowing it through.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Madam, I want to ask you a question. Before—if you take a look at part II of employment insurance—they took some money from employment insurance, they gave it to the province, and the province was local. It was local, right? The money was there to get a person to learn. It was not a company hiring somebody and giving the training, and then they get $5,000 from the federal government, from the provincial government, and from the company. It was more like the province, with the federal money, taking somebody off the street, bringing them to get their grade 12 or something like that, getting them the upgrading, and training them in a trade so that they could get a job.

Madam Martin-Laforge, are you not worried now about the direction we're going, where money is pulled out of the province? You've just said that it works better if it's in the community. But we're going the opposite way right now.

I'd like to hear you on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

[Stephen Thompson, Director, Policy, Research and Public Affairs, Quebec Community Groups Network]

Our community's position would be that the funding that's delivered directly from the federal government to communities is more effective in terms of access to services in English. English-speaking community groups in Quebec find it challenging to access funds that are transferred from the federal government through the provincial government. I would encourage you to invite an organization like the Riverside School Board that has an excellent adult education program. They can tell you the challenges they have accessing funds from Emploi-Québec to get adult education to get specific training done for anglophones in Quebec. We were pleasantly surprised and very supportive of the Canada job grant being delivered through Service Canada provincially, because for us that means that we're guaranteed access to those services in the official language of our choice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Over to you, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Martin-Laforge and Mr. Thompson, thank you for being here this morning.

I liked the first part of your speech, when you talked about youth. You talked a great deal about young people who go somewhere else to study and who wish to come back to their communities, but they have a hard time finding jobs, unfortunately. We are probably talking about young graduates and apprentices. The first years are vital for young people like that. If their first job is in another region, far from their communities, they will often settle there. We end up losing a segment of the youth population. When a community loses its young people, it loses its future and even its soul .

How could we strengthen employment and support those young people so that they stay in their communities and settle there for good?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I think Stephen has stats. Generally, as well, our school system and our career guidance system need to ensure that English-speaking youth feel they have a future in Quebec and that they will be a part of Quebec. Of course one part is the job. But also, you have to feel that you are welcome, that you can stay and make a living here and you are recognized as being valuable to the community. It starts early. It starts early in a small community like Thetford Mines where the English-speaking community is a valued member of the majority community, where there is good interaction with the majority and the minority communities, where the school is strong. They have good services, and they have a basketball team where the children can really thrive in their setting.

Of course, if you live in Thetford Mines there's no university there. You have to go closer and programs have to be available. They have to believe that by coming back—I keep using Thetford Mines as we have a small group there called Megantic corporation—and they worry about keeping their kids. Then they say that they won't keep them but we'll have them be so attached to the community and the environment that they will go away but want to come back. Partnerships with the municipalities to have jobs there are important.

Mr. Gourde, it's a collective effort on behalf of communities to be sure that their kids, not only the anglophones but the young francophones, come back to regions.

The regions are emptying. It is important to find ways to ensure that both the anglophones and francophones in those regions do not leave.

Stephen, did you have something that you wanted to share in terms of statistics?

[Stephen Thompson]

I think, in terms of the question, there's just not enough time to answer that question; it's very complicated.

Let's look at where anglophones work. Anglophones in Quebec are overweighted in management occupations; business, finance, and administration; natural and applied sciences and related occupations; arts and culture; and sales and service. Those are urban jobs, jobs principally in Montreal. That's where the economic opportunities are.

Where are anglophones under-represented in the workforce? Trade, transport, and equipment operators; natural resources, agriculture, and related production occupations; and occupations in manufacturing and utilities. So in the sort of manufacturing, medium-sized businesses that you're likely to find in the regions, anglophones aren't trained for those jobs. Anglophones are trained for the jobs that are in the cities. Why is that? Part of it is tradition. Also, because of the way funding works in all provinces—in all jurisdictions I know of—the English school system, the minority school system, doesn't get the resources that the majority school system gets to get that type of trades training. It's not equitable.

The third thing—and there's evidence on this—is that there is systemic discrimination against anglophones in the trade union movement in Quebec; we know that. So the places where there are likely to be unions, there are going to be fewer anglophones. In urban jobs there are going to be more anglophones. How do you keep anglophones in the regions? Train them for the jobs and give them the economic opportunities that are there. I don't really see it as a federal challenge; I really see this as a provincial challenge.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. Martin-Laforge, you were right to talk about the Thetford area, which is 45 minutes away from my riding. I know a lot of people from my area who have English-speaking families and who were fortunate enough to go to elementary and secondary schools in the Thetford area. That was a real benefit for them.

Today, people from those communities are English teachers in our francophone schools. Some are also farm machinery representatives serving large areas. Since they were relatively good or very good in English, they could easily do their post-secondary training in other provinces, or even in some U.S. states, and then pass on their training to the francophones in Quebec.

There is no denying it: the international market is predominantly English-speaking. Our region needs young people with a strong command of the English language so that they can impart the knowledge they have acquired in other parts of the world.

Mr. Thompson, I appreciate the fact that you brought this up. Our committee takes careful note of how the training must be structured to keep our young people in their regions. These young people are our wealth and our future.

I am very sensitive to the fact that our young people are learning both official languages. I am the father of five children who are all pursuing post-secondary studies right now. It is very interesting to see the life choices our kids make. It is very important to keep them in our regions. They must have access to the best possible tools that will offer them a better quality of life and improve the community life in our regions.

Thank you for your testimony.

I will now give Ms. St-Denis the chance to speak.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Ms. St-Denis, the floor is yours.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Socio-economically speaking, which English-speaking communities in Quebec are worse off than the average Quebeckers? Do English-speaking groups have wages well below the average for Quebeckers?

[Stephen Thompson]

That's correct. Anglophone Quebeckers, English-speaking Quebeckers, have a lower median income, to use my words carefully here. There's always controversy around income because of median and mean incomes, but median income, which is the accepted term, is lower among anglophones. Rates of poverty are higher in the anglophone community. It's absolutely true. Anglophones are 5% more likely to be unemployed than francophones.

Having said that, there is perhaps room for hope. Anglophones are 2% more likely to be self-employed. This is probably true in other minority communities generally. Minority communities tend to be very entrepreneurial. Because they don't have equal access to the majority economy, they do things on their own in their own communities and with other ties that they have, to generate their own income. So there is definitely room there to support entrepreneurship.

We have two outstanding organizations that we mention in our brief—YES, the Youth Employment Services in Montreal, and CEDEC, the Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation—which we recommend the committee invite to testify.

If you'd like further information, Madam St-Denis, we have research that we can send to the analyst about poverty in the English-speaking community.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you see poverty among English-speaking communities in Montreal or in the regions? You are talking about a difference of 5%. Is that in Montreal or outside?

[Stephen Thompson]

We can break those numbers out. The 5% I was talking about was province-wide. In general, province-wide, English-speaking Quebeckers are more likely to be unemployed than francophones. We can break them down by region, certainly. We can help the analyst do that; we have that data.

There is a general myth, I think, that is addressed in, among other places, the Senate standing committee's report on our community, on the myths and realities of the English-speaking community in Quebec. It's a 2011 report from your colleagues in the Senate that talks about poverty in Montreal. There may be a sense among people who don't know our community very well that anglophones who live in Quebec are well off and well served and wealthy. It's not true. There is a great deal of poverty among our community in Montreal.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

I'd like to make another point, if I may. Our community in Montreal has a very high level of immigrants, so that's another consideration in Montreal. There's a high proportion of blacks, and we know of lots of studies around young blacks in Montreal who are underemployed.

We also have—and we can make this available as well—a statistical portrait of the seniors in Quebec. That's really important, because we have a high number of seniors throughout Quebec. The Commissioner of Official Languages in November produced a report, a statistical portrait of seniors, with some very surprising.... Many of the departments told me they were very surprised at some of the results in there. As we know, among seniors there are women who are at a high level...and that poverty level is a consideration.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You talked about direct federal investment for the communities. I think Quebec must react.

What is your relationship with the Government of Quebec on that front? There must be some disagreements. The Government of Quebec does not easily accept its work being duplicated, I reckon.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

We work on our relationship with our colleagues in Quebec, and I believe that what we have brought to the table over the years is a better understanding of how the English-speaking community can contribute to the economic prosperity of all Quebeckers. There's more work to be done. We need to find ways of working together. For example, there is a service agreement between Quebec and with the provinces and Canada. We need to ensure that a service agreement in Quebec between Canada and the ministries in Quebec is more inclusive of some of the issues that we want to make available.

I'll give you an example here.

We would like to make translation available to our groups for their website translation and also for some of the very important studies they put forward. If our groups are doing a study and they can't afford to translate it, that becomes not very available for the majority community. There are ways that the Province of Quebec could help us. I think we have to be innovative, as we try to be innovative with the federal departments, about how to move money from the federal government to the province. We have to be innovative with our provincial counterparts to accept the money without it being a red flag. I think there's lots of work to be done, but if the federal government recognizes that the English-speaking community needs assistance in leveraging, already that's good. We will use that to go to the province in our communities.

There are great examples. If Gaspé comes to visit, or one of the other regions comes to visit, this stuff is being done on the ground. It isn't always being done with federal-provincial agreements. It's done locally where the province sees that the community is important to them.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do the federal government and the Commissioner of Official Languages make enough efforts to publicize and defend bilingualism? Does your organization feel that they are making efforts to show that being bilingual is an asset in Canada? Are they making enough efforts to organize activities and training, to create advertisements and so on, in both official languages?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

Having worked with the Commissioner of Official Languages for many years now, I believe the commissioner's office does a great job in putting forward the notion of a linguistic duality, of bilingualism. The commissioner has been very active throughout his mandate in the regions. In that sense, I think from that perspective it's very good.

In general, it's a tough thing. We recognize it's a tough thing for the government to come in and talk about linguistic duality in Quebec where the primacy of French is the rule. So I think more work needs to be done, careful work, because for an English-speaking community we are more and more bilingual. I think for Francophones, and I think Monsieur Gourde spoke of it, the young people are more and more bilingual. It's individual bilingualism.