One was here in Ottawa, where a funeral home cooperative wanted to go in and get financing from the BDC. They were told, sure, we'll give you the financing, but you have to give 100% up front. Well, if they had 100% up front, why would they be at the BDC?
So there's that disconnect. Again, they were prepared to offer all kinds of tools and handbooks and everything else, but the bottom line was that they had a sound business proposal. In turn they went out and they were able to finance through other means. We continually hear stories like that, where there's this divide. It's not that there are bad intentions from the government and from the civil servants. It's just that there's this lack of understanding.
Going back to Madame Kenny's statement, we have to bring the people around a common table to try to figure out what's going on. What are the needs, and how do we make the tools? We can make all of the tools in the world, but if it's not addressing the needs then we're falling further behind.