Official Languages Committee on April 1st, 2014

[Joline Rivard]

We basically volunteer our time to translate things that come to us. So again, as an oblivious business owner, I find it more important to help out my chamber of commerce by translating. Other members also offer their services to translate things. But one of our recommendations is that it would be nice to have access to something government funded where we can send these documents to help us translate and promote our businesses.

I just want to go back to the question about tax breaks and regulations. I think that we miss the boat sometimes on that. I'm going to give you an example. I worked for one of the biggest local businesses—not a business, but they have the most employees. For 17 years I worked at a business where I was constantly called out of my office, out of my position, to go translate for someone else while this person, who is anglophone, is sitting beside me. While I do his work, my work goes undone; I'm here translating. So there's no incentive for the French person who's doing double the work, and there's no incentive for the anglophones who know they can just call Joline, and she'll translate. So I think it's just hard because it's exhausting being a francophone in a community like this because we, as francophones here, are very proud and we work very hard at it, but it's too easy for the anglophones to just step back and say, “Oh yes, I'll provide you someone who is bilingual”.

[Manon Perreault, NDP, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

We'll go to our next member to give everybody an opportunity to comment and ask questions.

Mr. Williamson.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all of our witnesses for being in today.

Mr. Griffith, I actually was just checking the geographical location of your community because I was curious about a comment that was made that we kind of hashed over quickly, but that I think even a member of the opposition agreed with. This was that shoppers come from Quebec, really on the other side of your border, to your community to shop. Why do you suppose they're doing this?

[Darcy Griffith]

I think basically they're doing it because we have the shopping capacity. The City of Temiskaming Shores is fortunate in that it's located about two hours from any other large centre, which increases the size of the catchment area for shopping.

In northern Ontario—and I grew up in southern Ontario and relocated up here about four years ago—there seems to be a different Ontario-Quebec relationship than I experienced historically in southern Ontario. The border here truly is invisible. People will relocate from Ontario to Quebec, live in Quebec and work in Ontario, live in Ontario and drive to Quebec to work. The border is just a line on a map and not something that impacts daily life.

We know business owners who draw a great number of customers from Quebec simply because they have the goods and services that the persons living in Quebec want that aren't available on their side of the border. Likewise, my business goes across to Quebec, although we're based in Ontario, to provide services to various businesses and communities that they couldn't otherwise obtain in the area. I think it's an economic necessity that we band to together simply because of the geographic location and I think we're better for it. We have a greater understanding of the issues facing Quebec. I think Quebeckers in this area have a pretty good understanding of the challenges facing Ontario, and to be honest, we make it work. It benefits both communities and it's good.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

One of the primary towns in my district is a border community. I notice the same thing. I'm a member from New Brunswick, next to the state of Maine where some of our consumers go to the U.S. for purchases. Even in the east end of my province, we see Nova Scotians come over to Moncton, which is a francophone-majority city, for consumption.

In both cases, we see that gas prices are cheaper in Maine than they are New Brunswick, and again, they're cheaper in New Brunswick than they are in Nova Scotia. As well, the sales tax is lower in New Brunswick—13%—than it is in Nova Scotia. Similarly, it's lower still in Maine. Hence, you see this migration, Nova Scotia to New Brunswick and then where there's the opportunity, New Brunswick to Maine. Is that part of the equation for your community? What are gas prices like in your community versus Quebec, and what's the differential in the sales tax?

[Darcy Griffith]

I think when consumers look at it, they tend to look at the overall pricing. I think gas prices are pretty consistent across. We are much higher than communities two hours south or two hours north. It is a little bit cheaper in Quebec for gas on most days than it is in this area. We also are close to the Timiskaming First Nation, and they operate many of their own businesses as well. In some cases their prices are cheaper than what consumers can get either in New Liskeard, Temiskaming Shores, south Temiskaming area, or in other parts of Quebec.

I think consumers tend to look at the overall price and how that impacts them. Whether that's HST, or provincial sales tax, or whether there are discounts that are available, they don't care how the total price for a litre of gas gets added up, it all depends on what it costs them when they buy it.

I think consumers do usually chase the lowest dollar. I think government taxation is a significant part of that, but so is the profit margins that businesses seek, and the labour costs they have to pay, as well as the cost of their supplies and shipping. So I think it's a bit of a dog's breakfast as it were.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

No. I'd like to follow up on that. You raise an excellent point.

Can you talk to me then about some of those business costs in your community versus over the border in Quebec?

I'm trying to get a sense of your community because I find this interesting. Again seeing where it is, it seems you have certain advantages, hence consumers are coming to your area. Is it just the size of your economy, your town, or is it some of the factors you just mentioned, some of the business input costs and things like that?

[Darcy Griffith]

I think it's really geographically based. It's because we're located where we are. I've heard it described that we have all the shopping you will need, but maybe not all the shopping you will want. So if you're looking for an extremely specialized item, it may not be available for you to be able to go in and pick it off the rack. You may have to order it in, but there are businesses here that will do that for you.

Likewise, the overall business costs.... To be honest I've never operated a business in Quebec. I don't know what their regulatory or taxation costs are. We did look into it on a personal level because we do business across the border, just to make sure that we were in full compliance with any of the requirements to operate in Quebec. They have similar administrative burdens and responsibilities to what we have here.

The taxation, again in some cases, if we can cross the border into Quebec and buy something we could not buy locally in Ontario, then we certainly do that. It's all about getting what you need when you need it as a business owner, and sometimes you might pay a little more to get it today instead of next week. So it's a unique community, and I would say that while we benefit in the city of Temiskaming Shores and the south Temiskaming area...for persons coming from Quebec, I also know people who choose to go to Quebec because of their offerings and things they can't get here. It's very much a reciprocal arrangement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

[Joline Rivard]

I would say, though, it's probably a little bit higher for Québécois to come to Ontario. A lot of Québécois shop at my store, and they say that. They come because there is a Walmart. They come because there's more to offer. I've discovered that in a 50-kilometre radius, 17 out of the 30 communities that exist are mostly francophone including Quebec, so it's beneficial to them to come our way. It would be beneficial to us, as francophone business owners, to promote that there's more than a Walmart.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Monsieur Dionne Labelle.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

My first question is for Ms. Côté

I want to begin by congratulating you on your work. You seem like a very dynamic individual.

This week, the NDP introduced in the House a buy local policy. Could such a policy help companies in minority francophone communities?

[Ethel Côté]

That would help tremendously. Apart from what was introduced in the House this week, a few weeks ago, in the United Counties of Prescott and Russell, a loyalty card was issued for all francophone and anglophone businesses across eastern Ontario. Companies and individuals will be able to obtain that card, whose purpose is to support local purchases. This is a francophone initiative, but the card will be available to francophones and anglophones, as long as we are talking about small businesses and social enterprises.

People managing a small or local company could not obtain a loyalty card similar to the Aeroplan card to support local economy, as it was too expensive. The card is available in English and in French, and the goal is to support local economy. There will be a loyalty card from coast to coast to coast to truly encourage people to buy locally.

When the people of Moonbeam elected to buy the village grocery store and invest at home, the logic behind their decision was based on buying local. Previously, not all those people would shop at their grocery store. They would travel 45 minutes to Walmart. However, once they realized that they were losing jobs at home and that buying local maintained those jobs, the logic changed.

The number of initiatives is growing. I saw some in northern Ontario, and in central and southwestern parts. For instance, a small coffee shop in Rockland is also issuing a card. Businesses are trying to find ways to encourage people to buy local on a regular basis.

Beyond the small initiative by the business and its clients, whole regions are now organizing themselves. Some of them are doing so strictly in a francophone perspective. The idea is to establish a buy local and buy in French practice in order to support the economy. Other regional initiatives go beyond the language issue and use bilingual tools to encourage people to buy locally and support the local economy. Through job creation, wealth is being built for everyone in the community.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

In the same perspective of buying local, I heard about an experiment in Louisiana. The French speaking merchants launched a campaign entitled “Ici, on cash en français”, or something along those lines.

[Ethel Côté]

That's it.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I am not familiar with the full reality of linguistic communities across Canada, but are signs being put up in French?

[Ethel Côté]

Francophone companies do not want to put up signs in French in some areas. When we were seeking funds to set up a company in Saskatoon, I met some entrepreneurs who did not want to put up signs in French. They were willing to invest in projects, but they do not want to have French signs. According to them, if they put up any signs in French, they may lose some of their clientele.

That said, this is not the reality everywhere. Generally speaking, entrepreneurs will not put up signs only in French. The French cuisine restaurant in Whitby, close to Oshawa and Toronto, has a French name, but its signs are not only in French, since it wants to play a role in the local economy. Its owners did not choose to set up shop there just to sell French cuisine to francophones, but to give people an opportunity to have a French culinary experience. Of course, they will provide services in French if that's the language of their patrons. They want to use their business to help la Francophonie thrive. In short, some people do put up signs in French.

We think that loyalty cards will help make entrepreneurs proud. We also have some campaign that lay out the added value of being a francophone entrepreneur, regardless of the region or country they come from. Those individuals do add value. People can be served in English, as well as in French.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

French is a well-liked language in Canada.

[Ethel Côté]

Yes, the number of francophiles is growing.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

It's the language of love.

[Ethel Côté]

The reason the Alliance française is generating revenue is that many people are learning French. That is happening all over the country now.

[Pierre Dionne Labelle, NDP, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

You have worked in a number of corporations or companies that help business start-ups.

I will now speak to the people from Temiskaming Shores and Area Chamber of Commerce.

Entrepreneurs invest a tremendous amount of energy into creating their business plan. I spent four years working in a local development centre in Quebec. Let's say that I put in the time to write my business plan in French. If I were to go to various economic stakeholders from your region, could I be accepted as an entrepreneur? Will my business plan be judged on its true merit or be discounted in advance because no resources would be available on site to understand my economic adventure?

[Darcy Griffith]

I would suggest that at the government level, whether you're bringing your business plan to the city, to the small business development centre Enterprise Temiskaming, or to something like the South Temiskaming Community Futures Development Corporation, they would absolutely have the resources to be able to successfully assess the nature of your business plan to make a decision on it. I don't think it would impact you at all.

On a private level, if you were to reach out to private organizations, you might be a little more challenged presenting it in French, but again, I think good businesses tend to get the funding they need, and private enterprise is interested in helping smaller businesses succeed. So I think they would also make it work, perhaps not as seamlessly and flawlessly, but I think at the end of the day they would cross the finish line with it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Mr. Griffith.

Monsieur Gourde.