Official Languages Committee on April 8th, 2014

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Can guidance counsellors rely on certain data from Statistics Canada or is that too hard in this case?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

This gives me a chance to promote our organization a bit.

Statistics Canada quite recently published the results of a study conducted on young graduates. The size of the sample was roughly 30,000 people. We have a lot of information of a linguistic nature. We also have data on their main area of study and on the sector in which they work upon graduation.

There are very few studies on this. These results are quite new. It would have been beneficial to develop this source of data in combination with other sources in order to shed more light on this problem.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Surely something will be published to that effect in the very near future. You are promoting this, but how? We do not hear much about it.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The results were officially published on the Statistics Canada website. I recently learned of the results of this study and its potential, given the number of linguistic questions it leaves unanswered. Yes, we will discuss it with our partners. This data will certainly help us better understand the challenges related to people entering the workforce based on the fields of study that young people choose.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Does Statistics Canada conduct studies on the entrepreneurship in the regions where there are minority communities? Of course we want people to stay in their regions, but sometimes the communities have a hard time offering jobs.

Are there shortcomings with regard to entrepreneurship or is entrepreneurial leadership struggling to develop? Are there tools they can be given?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The national household survey includes questions on the mobility of workers from province to province and on self-employed workers with or without work. There is quite a bit of information. We do not have any specific information on the entrepreneurship of official language minorities, but at least there is information on self-employed workers and those who start a business.

As I was saying earlier, the challenge is to find sources of data on the composition of the labour force, namely whether there are more francophones or anglophones, but there is enough information to at least study a significant part of this phenomenon. This should be studied. This issue is under-developed at this time.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Ms. Lalonde, we know that a young, educated Canadian will have more mobility than a young person who did not pursue post-secondary education. He will have more chances to...

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

I'm sorry, but I'm having a hard time hearing you.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Young Canadians who have completed post-secondary education and have a bachelor's, a master's or a PhD are very mobile, both at home and abroad. This mobility often leads to a brain drain. We hope they'll come back one day, but the likelihood that they will is rather small since it will be hard for them to find a job in their home region.

If those young people decide one day to start a business, how might we encourage them to bring their skills back to their home region? Often, they bring back their skills and develop new niches, which in turn creates a new dynamic. Are there possibilities in that regard?

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

Post-secondary education in French is not available in every province. In a number of regions, students have to leave their home province to go to Ottawa, Moncton or another city to pursue their education in French. We have to provide them with incentives to return to their home region upon graduation and to work there at a business. Of course, we can't force them to do that.

These days, the mobility of young students is very important because it gives them another perspective on certain aspects of life. A number of our students do internships throughout Europe, which gives them skills that they would not have acquired if they stayed home. We have to give young people incentives so that they can return to their home region.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

I will now give the floor to Ms. St-Denis.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Hello. I want to thank the witnesses for being here with us today.

The committee is currently studying the socio-economic situation of francophone minority communities.

Mr. Corbeil, you presented a very good document. When I started reading it, I found it to be very interesting. However, in reading your document, I was expecting to find out about the real situation of the francophone minority communities. You'll be quick to say that Mr. Godin raised two important points.

We cannot determine the exact situation of the minority communities because their populations are not large enough, because they are too remote, because they do not answer the questionnaires. There is no shortage of reasons. Do you have any suggestions for us? Should different analytical parameters be used so that we, as members of the committee, can have a status report? We have been working on this file for three weeks and still do not have a status report. Yet, people come here and present fine documents, talk about what they're doing, talk about the socio-economic situation, industries and many other things.

However, there are things we do not know. We do not know the assimilation rate of people in small communities. You say that they earn roughly the same salaries, have roughly the same unemployment rate and the same employment rate. Is that because they are assimilating, because they are speaking English, or because they are succeeding?

I read that they are mostly in education. There is no doubt that in the francophone school boards there are people who live in French. It is hard to find them, but they do exist outside Quebec. That's it or they work for provincial organizations. They are public servants.

Other than that, what is the real situation? How might be get a real picture of the situation, of the wealth, of the poverty of these communities?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Thank you for your question. It's an excellent question.

Before I give the floor to my colleague, Mr. Lepage, who worked hard on these issues, I want to clarify something. Between 2010 and 2012, Statistics Canada published 11 provincial and territorial portraits for a total of nearly 800 pages of analyses on each province. Among other things, we use those portraits to cover demographic and socio-economic situations, languages spoken, and education. For these portraits of each province, there is some very detailed information that I encourage you to consult.

Next week, a video synthesis will be published by Statistics Canada. It will be roughly 30 minutes long and will synthesize these 800 or so pages of analysis.

I must mention that when I appeared as a witness before this committee, I talked a number of times about the challenges involving assimilation into English. You know that outside Quebec, close to a quarter million francophones find that they are more comfortable speaking English than French. There are different challenges.

We might wonder what the current situation is in the communities, but first we must agree on what constitutes a community. There is really a very large diversity of communities. A significant proportion, or 40% of francophones outside Quebec, live in municipalities where they represent less than 10%, or even less than 5% of the population. Is that a community? What distinguishes them from those who live in a community where they represent 40% to 60% of the population?

In fact, when we talk about economic development, it is clear that there are many people who develop from a socio-economic point of view, but that is done mostly in English. You are absolutely right about that.

I would like to give the floor to my colleague.

[Jean-François Lepage, Analyst, Social and Aboriginal Statistic Division, Statistics Canada]

Obviously there's a lot to this issue. You raised a number of challenges related to your work, which consists in analyzing these issues.

As my colleague Jean-Pierre mentioned, there was a cycle of analyses with the data from the 2006 census. Currently, we are actively working on analyzing the data from the 2011 census and the national household survey. That data is starting to produce answers.

The socio-economic situation of the minority communities is rather complex to analyze. We are trying to do so as accurately as possible. We notice that the socio-economic situation of the minorities varies a lot from one province to another, even from one region to another in one province.

You mention that a national portrait and the provincial portraits give us certain information. Essentially, the general information that comes out is that the employment situation among francophone minorities is similar. There are some major gaps, but in some regions, the portrait of the socio-economic situation, seen from the perspective of certain indicators such as the unemployment rate and income, is quite different.

In areas where the situation of francophone minorities seems better from a socio-economic standpoint, we see a greater propensity for using English in the labour market.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you believe that the data you listed on the language spoken at home really reflects the linguistic reality of francophones who live in minority communities?

[Jean-François Lepage]

The data from the census are top-quality. We have data on the language spoken the most at home, but also on the other languages spoken regularly. I believe that this allows us to have a more accurate portrait of the situation.

We have seen that in minority situations, the rate of exogamy is growing. Exogamy is where people with different mother tongues become a couple and live together. We know that in that environment, the majority language tends to be adopted as the main language used at home. The data on the language spoken regularly at home allows us to complete the overall portrait to see to what extent French in a minority community continues to be used within a household.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I would like to expand on that.

After the 2006 census, Statistics Canada conducted the Survey on the Vitality of Official-Language Minorities. We asked a wide range of questions on the linguistic practice outside the home. It became quite clear that the use of French in minority communities is closely linked to the proportion of those minorities within their community.

I will give you an example. For a quarter of a million people, which I mentioned earlier, who live in small minority situations, English is used in the majority of interactions outside the home. That is why those data allow us to complete the portrait that the results of the census gives us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Ms. Bateman, you have the floor.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank all the witnesses for being here.

Ms. Lalonde, during your presentation, you said that you were in the process of conducting a study on high school students who are considering going to a francophone university and on the obstacles that prevent them from doing so.

What are the results of that study?

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

If I understand correctly, you are talking about the immersion study.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes, but in particular the part concerning the young people who are in high school and are considering doing a bachelor's at a francophone university.

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

I have some preliminary data because there is actually going to be a meeting tomorrow to complete this study. However, I can give you some information.

We met with high school students who are in immersion programs in three Canadian regions. We also met with immersion students who are currently studying in French at the post-secondary level and some of the students' parents.

One thing is very clear when it comes to these students. They say that, after completing their high school studies in immersion, they do not feel that they have the ability to continue their post-secondary education in French or in immersion. Sometimes, this is a perception on their part that is dispelled when they begin post-secondary studies. In other cases, this perception is justified. After twelve years of immersion, not all of them have the ability to continue their post-secondary education in French.

The other very important point is that, for some parents, post-secondary French programs are not available everywhere. It is easier for some students to pursue post-secondary education in English because they live closer to an English university or college. There are also more programs available.

We have not yet completed this study, but those are a few things that have emerged thus far. If you are interested, I could send you a copy of this study once it has been completed.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

All right. Thank you.

What is the graduation rate for students who attend a university that belongs to your network? Furthermore, how successful are your graduates in the job market afterwards?

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

Are you referring to their ability to find a job afterwards?

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Yes.