Official Languages Committee on April 8th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

I would like to welcome you to the 19th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. We are here today, Tuesday, April 8, 2014, pursuant to Standing Order 108, to study the economic situation of Canada’s minority linguistic communities.

Today we will hear from Mr. Corbeil and Mr. Lepage from Statistics Canada, and Ms. Lalonde from the Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne.

Before we begin, I believe I have a notice of motion from Monsieur Godin, and I will give him the floor to give us that notice of motion.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a notice of motion that I want to present. It reads as follows:

That the Standing Committee on Official Languages invite the Minister of Canadian Heritage to appear before May 29th 2014 to discuss the Plans and Priorities for 2014-2015 of the department for a two-hour televised session.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you for your notice of motion, Mr. Godin.

We will now hear from Mr. Corbeil from Statistics Canada.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil, Assistant Director, Social and Aboriginal Statistic Division, Statistics Canada]

Good morning.

I would like to thank the members of the committee for inviting Statistics Canada to appear and offer input to their discussions on the current situation and historical evolution of the socioeconomic conditions of official-language minorities in Canada. With me today is my colleague, Jean-François Lepage.

Given the time we have been allotted, our comments will focus primarily on presenting a few key statistics related to education, representation in the employment sectors, income and unemployment, elements that indicate how some key socioeconomic characteristics of Canada’s official-language minorities have changed over time.

We will also briefly describe the main sources of data in this area and some of the issues related to the statistical study on the socioeconomic situation of minority linguistic communities.

Historically, it is well documented that francophones in Canada had lower educational attainment, income, occupational levels and industrial ownership than anglophones. Their situation has evolved a great deal over the past 50 years to the point where we have seen a gradual and marked decline in the socioeconomic inequalities between anglophones and francophones, both in Quebec and in the other provinces and territories.

However, we must point out that the gains that francophones have achieved over the years with regards to key socioeconomic indicators have been accompanied by a decline in the use of the French language, as evidenced by the increase in the use of English over time among those representing a very small proportion of the community in which they live.

Among the primary drivers of change is the fact that the level of education of French-speaking minorities has significantly improved since the 1960s, especially because of the obligation to remain in school until the age of 16, and the growing importance attributed to education by governments, employers, and the general population.

Thus, in the early 1970s the proportion of the population without at least a high school diploma was much higher among francophones than anglophones in almost all the provinces. Today the gaps have narrowed to the point where those that remain are due largely to the fact that francophone seniors are much less likely to hold a diploma or a degree than are their English-speaking counterparts.

The significant evolution in the education of francophones is especially evident in the 25 to 44 age group with a university degree. In 2011, among the people in this age group, only anglophones in Quebec were more likely than francophones to hold a university degree. In all other provinces, with the exception of New Brunswick where the two groups were equal, francophones surpassed anglophones.

The situation in Quebec occurred not because francophones in Quebec had less education than francophones in other provinces, but because anglophones who live in Quebec had higher levels of education than anglophones living elsewhere in Canada.

We should also mention that the gap between anglophones and francophones in Quebec can be explained in part by the fact that the anglophone population is largely urban and includes a significant proportion of immigrants, two subpopulations that generally have higher levels of education.

Francophone minorities are more concentrated in certain employment sectors than their English-speaking counterparts. For example, in all provinces and territories, there are proportionally more francophones than anglophones working in the public administration sector. Thus, 13% of francophones 15 years and older who worked during the reference period had worked primarily in this employment sector, compared with 7% of anglophones. In addition, they are overrepresented in this sector relative to their demographic weight in the population: while francophones represented 4.5% of the labour force in 2011, they accounted for 7% of employees in this sector.

The minority francophone labour force is also more highly concentrated in the educational services sector in all provinces and territories, except New Brunswick. In contrast, in several provinces, francophones are less concentrated in the retail trade industry and the accommodation and food services industry than their English-speaking counterparts.

The situation of francophones in New Brunswick is different from that of other francophones in minority communities in terms of their representation in certain industry sectors. For example, although they represented 32% of the population of that province in 2011, they accounted for 40% of the labour force in the primary sectors of agriculture, forestry, fishing and the extraction of natural resources as well as in the manufacturing sector. Conversely, they were underrepresented in such sectors as utilities, professional, scientific and technical services, management of companies and enterprises, and administrative and management services, accounting for between 19% and 24% of the workforce.

In Quebec, anglophones are more concentrated in such sectors as wholesale trade, professional, scientific and technical services, educational services and accommodation and food services. Moreover, although they represent 13.5% of Quebec’s labour force, their representation in the information and cultural industries, real estate, professional and scientific services, and management of companies and enterprises varied between 17% and 21%.

However, they were underrepresented in certain industries, in particular the primary industries, natural resource extraction, utilities, and the provincial, municipal and local public administration sectors. In this regard, we found that 3.7% of jobs in the provincial government were held by English-speaking workers, compared with over 96% held by francophones.

Measuring the income gaps between linguistic groups is a generally more complex task and the results are likely to vary depending on the parameters that are included or excluded in the calculations. Nevertheless, the differences in income between anglophones and francophones are normally quite small in the provinces and territories outside Quebec, and generally to the advantage of francophones in terms of both median and average income. Once again, New Brunswick is the exception since the average income in that province was slightly higher for anglophones.

Several factors explain the income difference between anglophones and francophones. A more in-depth analysis of the census or national household survey results reveals that these gaps are largely explained by age, sex, education, type of residence, industry sector, and immigrant status.

In Quebec, the differences in income between anglophones and francophones are also quite small. They tend to be higher in one group or the other depending on the indicator selected. For example, anglophones have a higher average income than francophones, but a lower median income. This is mainly due to the fact that the income gaps are higher within the anglophone group than the francophone group. In other words, English-speaking Quebeckers are overrepresented in both the higher and lower income segments compared to the francophones. Regardless, the significant income advantage of anglophones in Quebec observed in 1971 no longer exists today.

Data from the national household survey show that overall, the unemployment rate of francophones outside Quebec was lower than that of anglophones in May 2011. For example, in Ontario, the unemployment rate of francophones was 6.5%, compared with 8.3% for anglophones. New Brunswick again was the exception, since the unemployment rate of francophones in that province was 12.4%, two points higher than that of anglophones. In contrast, in Quebec, in May 2011, the English-speaking minority posted an unemployment rate that was about two percentage points higher than that of francophones.

It is important to mention that the overall portrait presented here highlights an essentially provincial perspective. The overall statistical portrait, which reveals a more or less similar socio-economic situation for official language minorities and majorities based on the key indicators, sometimes hides disparities or gaps between provinces or within a given province. In other words, even though the overall portrait seems balanced or even favourable to official language minorities in some respects, the socio-economic situation of minorities in certain regions can be above or below average both inside and outside Quebec.

The main data sources that can be used to study the socioeconomic conditions of official language minorities are the Canadian censuses and the 2011 National Household Survey. There is also the Survey on the Vitality of Official Language Minorities, conducted shortly after the 2006 census.

Statistics Canada has released a number of analyses based on these data, in particular a series of detailed provincial and territorial portraits released between 2010 and 2012. This survey still has a great deal of analytical potential.

We should also mention the survey for the Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies conducted in 2011 and 2012, which has an oversampling of official language minorities in Quebec, Ontario, New Brunswick and Manitoba. Analysis of these data will provide considerable insight into the relationship between the literacy and numeracy competencies of these populations, their labour force situation and practices, as well as the issues confronting these populations given an economy increasingly focused on knowledge and information technology.

The main data sources available make it possible to develop a fairly accurate portrait of the socioeconomic situation of Canada’s official language minorities. However, the availability of linguistic information, sample sizes and the retrospective nature of the information will continue to create challenges. For example, in many regions, it is difficult to identify, let alone define, so-called anglophone or francophone businesses in minority communities based on available information.

Over and above the availability of data, there are other important challenges to accurately documenting the socio-economic situation of official language minorities. There is not necessarily consensus on the definition of an official language minority, as is evident from the many criteria available, nor is there a common definition of the concept of official language community.

Last, part of the improved socio-economic situation of official language minorities is attributable to changes in the composition of the minority population from international immigration and interprovincial migration. Migrants and immigrants are generally concentrated in certain provinces or regions, and as a result, contribute to the evolving socio-economic portrait of official language minority communities in these regions.

Allow me, in closing, to state that Statistics Canada produces many studies on official language minorities in Canada. It will continue to provide data and analysis on their socio-economic situation. Through the ongoing support of the federal government and its community partners, Statistics Canada plans to continue adopting positive measures to inform public debate on this important topic.

My colleague, Jean-François Lepage, and I are available to answer your questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Corbeil.

I now give the floor to Ms. Lalonde from the Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne.

[Jocelyne Lalonde, Director General, Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne]

Good morning, Mr. Chair, committee members and all participants.

On behalf of the Association des universités de la francophonie and the Consortium national de formation en santé, I would first like to thank you for the invitation, because I am now the Director General of both organizations. As I'm sure you understand, it is hard for me to separate the two in the context of your study.

I will begin by giving you a brief overview of the AUFC and the CNFS. I will then share a few observations regarding the important role our member institutions play in the economic development of francophone minority communities and I will conclude with a few recommendations.

The AUFC is a group of 14 francophone or bilingual universities in seven provinces outside Quebec. The programs offered by those institutions enhance the quality and scope of university learning, teaching and research in French, thereby contributing to the vitality and development of francophone minority communities. Every year, over 30,000 students enrol in the 750 programs offered in French at our member universities.

The CNFS is a group of 11 colleges and universities that offer programs in French in various health disciplines. The CNFS helps improve access to quality health services in French in francophone minority communities by training francophone and bilingual health care professionals.

Although your study is on the economic situation of official language minority communities, I should point out right from the start that our universities and colleges contribute enormously to the human, social, cultural and economic development of the Canadian francophonie and Canada as a whole. However, the reality is that they are recognized as the economic engine of francophone minority communities, and that is what I want to focus on today.

Our members' contributions to the development and enhancement of the francophone minority communities in which they are located are deeply rooted in the mission they are trying to achieve. Through both the quality of training they provide and the research they conduct, our post-secondary institutions use their knowledge to further promote their communities.

Economically speaking, post-secondary institutions are job creators as well as purchasers of goods and services. Just think for a moment about the economic contribution made by the 600 employees of the Université de Saint-Boniface in a community of 65,000 people.

Second, we must not forget the impact of basic and applied research. As hubs of research and innovation, our members contribute to the gains in productivity achieved in the economies of their communities, their regions, their provinces and the country as a whole. Our researchers do not conduct research just for the sake of making discoveries; they do their work for the benefit of their community.

Not far from here, the University of Ottawa conducted an economic impact study in 2012. The study found that that university alone contributes $4.12 billion annually to Ottawa-Gatineau.

But beyond the numbers, there is the leadership provided by post-secondary institutions within francophone minority communities. When it comes time to develop a community economically, socially and culturally, our institutions are partners and catalysts, rather than ivory towers.

In the context of community-university-college partnerships, we get experts from several sectors to sit down together and come up with multi-disciplinary solutions to the issues facing the community.

Consider for example Laurentian University’s School of Architecture and its impact on the revitalization of downtown Sudbury. Inaugurated just last September, this new architectural school is gradually transforming the downtown economy given that investors and businesses are following the school's example. The school is also training a new kind of architect versed in sustainable development and urbanization, and is introducing a new creative class into Greater Sudbury that is having a cultural and social impact.

When it comes to research, our francophone institutions transcend the language issue. They have adopted a much broader vision and welcome research chairs in many areas.

Our researchers will be the ones to produce tomorrow's breakthroughs and feed Canada's innovation ecosystem. As we already know, the most prosperous communities are those that have managed to shift to a knowledge-based economy. Job creation in francophone minority communities is therefore directly linked to our institutions' growing research capacity.

We recognize the federal government's vital role in research and hope that in its next five-year strategy for science, technology and innovation, the government will acknowledge the growing research capacity of Canada's francophone post-secondary institutions and its impact on economic growth.

In that context, the high level of cooperation between post-secondary institutions and businesses of all sizes deserves to be acknowledged. The many university-college-business partnerships contribute to developing the talent behind business innovation and promoting the technological transfer from post-secondary institutions to the private sector.

The government, especially through the National Research Council of Canada, has done a lot to increase the number of industrial internships and it must stay the course. The increased number of internships in francophone minority community institutions and businesses will make it easier to retain graduates who often enter the business community upon graduation. This in turn will also generate job-creating ideas.

The infrastructure used for education and research is another aspect that interests us. Recently, the government announced that for the next 10 years, its new building Canada fund would include an innovation component for which post-secondary institutions would be eligible.

I would now like to move on to the internationalization of our campuses and the important role that post-secondary education plays in immigration.

The aging population affects the country as a whole, but the demographic pressures are even more intense on the francophone minority communities. We are running the risk of no longer having enough available workers in those communities to build a modern, technology-driven economy. Immigration, and the economic integration of international students in our communities in particular, is becoming our only hope.

Canada has just come up with a new five-year strategy for international education. The primary objective is to double the number of international students in Canada by 2022. It is clear that the international students in our institutions are the ideal candidates to immigrate to Canada and settle in francophone communities since they hold Canadian diplomas, master both official languages and, for the most part, have relevant work experience. Over the past few years, Canadian francophone colleges and universities have accepted more and more international students and provided them with various training and employability programs.

The demographic portrait of the student population in our institutions has changed quite a bit over the years and has become more diverse. For example, international students represent 18% of all students at the Université de Moncton and 15% of the student population at the Université de Saint-Boniface.

Canadian francophone universities want to do more in terms of international education and immigration to ensure the economic development of their communities. The government could support them by providing a broader range of training and related services to immigrant students, international students and French-speaking immigrants in francophone minority communities. What is more, the implementation of a targeted bursary program for post-secondary institutions in Canada's francophonie would be a step in the right direction for making it easier to recruit students.

Before moving on to solid recommendations, allow me to close by saying that our members hold a unique place in the francophone minority communities and play an essential leadership role. They are veritable economic engines in these communities, but they can only fulfill their mission in partnership with other players, including government.

Allow me to close with four recommendations.

First, in its next five-year strategy for science, technology and innovation, the government might recognize the growing research capacity of Canada's francophone post-secondary institutions and its impact on the economic growth of francophone minority communities.

Second, increasing the number of internships in businesses in francophone minority communities would make it easier to retain graduates in those communities.

Third, as far as the innovation component of the new building Canada fund is concerned, it will be up to Canada's francophonie institutions to put forward solid proposals in cooperation with the provinces, but federal decision-makers have to be aware of the economic impact of education and research on francophone minority communities.

Finally, the government could support Canada's francophonie institutions in providing a broader range of training and related services to immigrant students, international students and French-speaking immigrants. What is more, the implementation of a targeted bursary program might attract more international students to francophone minority communities.

Again, thank you for inviting us here today. I would be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Ms. Lalonde.

We will begin with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

A number of things were mentioned.

I would like to begin by asking the representatives of Statistics Canada a question. In fact, I have a few questions for them.

The government changed the long form census. As you know, the minority communities fought to keep it. Is all that information available or are you missing what you need to conduct a proper study? I'm not sure if you understand my question.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I understand your question perfectly.

All the data on the socio-economic characteristics or the economic development of the communities no longer come from the census, but from the national household survey. Having a provincial or regional perspective is not a major challenge. The information is good and, in my opinion, it is possible to come to solid conclusions with information from that data base.

The challenge lies elsewhere, with very small communities. Obviously, most of the francophones in minority communities are part of the overall picture of the province. However, if you are interested in a municipality, for example, in which there is a small number of francophones, it is very hard and even impossible to draw a conclusion or analyze their situation, including because of the lack of responses from these small municipalities. There are roughly 50,000 francophones in minority communities for whom we have no specific information about their communities. Statistics Canada was unable to provide information on their communities because the rate of response was far too low.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Would you recommend reverting back to the previous situation and going back to the tools that were available before?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

As you know, Statistics Canada cannot make recommendations on that. Often, we try to find other ways to answer those questions. Of course, for people...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You cannot make recommendations, but you say that you do not have information on 50,000 people.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Yes, but...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

If that recommendation is made, doesn't it follow that it would be included?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I will give you an example.

On March 26, Statistics published an overview of Canada's official language communities. That overview included information on more than 5,000 municipalities across the country. Nonetheless, in the case of the municipalities where the numbers are quite low, we do not have that information. That is all I can say about that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You are talking about minority communities. When Statistics Canada is making its recommendations, how do you count the people who work out west? We are talking about the economy, but many people are not taken into consideration.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

In that sense, this is not necessarily a problem since the people you are referring to, who work in those regions, are generally included in the national household survey. We do have information on them. As I was telling you, it is really in the very small communities that the situation is a problem. We know that some information could not be provided, but for those regions in particular, we generally have information on those communities.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ms. Lalonde, we are talking about welcoming immigrants in the universities, in the small communities and so forth. Does that create a problem? I am asking you the question and I presume you will answer how you see fit. Doesn't this create a problem? The small rural regions have enough problems because there are no jobs. That's what our people are saying. They are talking about that and there's nothing wrong with that. People are wondering why we would want to bring in more people when they themselves have no work and are forced to go out west.

We see it. Just this week, the Société des Acadiens et Acadiennes du Nouveau-Brunswick called on the government to invite immigrants to Moncton to ensure employment and the future of the community. Other people say that they had to go university for four years and now they have to look for work elsewhere. Isn't that contradictory? I wonder what your thoughts are on that.

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

First, I would say that the situation may be quite different from one province to another. The situation in New Brunswick is different than that of the regions in western Canada.

We are talking about economic immigration and economic integration. The work is mostly done based the employers and people who want to immigrate to Canada. There are certain sectors where there is a labour shortage and others not. In some provinces, there is a major labour shortage and in others there isn't at all.

Immigration must be based on economic integration and the need for labour in certain regions and professions in particular.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Some universities offer numerous nursing courses. However, the hospitals then lay off the nurses. For a young person who spends $5000 on their education, it is discouraging to know that in his or her region there are layoffs in his or her field of study. In the meantime, the government is saying it wants to bring in people from other countries to work in that field.

Sometimes the institution forgets that in addition to training, there needs to be jobs available. I am saying that because everyone is talking about it. It's as though the colleges and universities wanted to have students at all costs. It's as though they do not see any further than that. They are not concerned with whether or not they are offering the right courses.

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

In most of the universities and colleges in Canada's francophonie and in our minority communities, college training is quite centred on the needs of employers. At the college level, it is much easier to determine whether there needs to be cuts in certain programs as a result of decreased demand for labour based on a number of factors.

University programs take four years. It takes time before the number of registrations can go down. Sometimes it can take quite a while. You gave the example of nursing programs. I can tell you that most of the nurses who graduate from our universities have no trouble finding work in Canada if they are bilingual.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In Canada, I agree.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Mr. Gourde, you have the floor.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our witnesses for being here with us this morning.

My first question is for Ms. Lalonde, but another witness can speak to it too.

Today we are talking about the economy. You talked about the employment situation in certain sectors. You said there was a skills shortage in some sectors in Canada and that we needed to recruit foreign workers. In other sectors, it seems there are enough.

Are the universities telling young people who want to attend university which sectors have a future and those that might not? We get the feeling that the universities are not necessarily doing that.

I have five children who are all doing post-secondary education. We give young people the freedom to choose what they like and want. If they can choose between four or five fields that they like, it would be best if they chose one where they have 100% chance of getting a job instead of one where they have only a 10% chance.

They take a four-year program to get a bachelor's. They might even do a master's afterward. They might devote six years of their lives to studying in a field where it will be practically impossible to get a job because the competition is so stiff. For every 10 jobs, there are 35 students graduating from university.

Is it possible to improve this situation?

[Jocelyne Lalonde]

Young people choose a program of study in a given area because it interests them. We should be engaging with young people before they decide what area they want to pursue in their post-secondary education. Guidance counsellors should be able to help students before they determine what direction they want to take in their education.

Once they have started university, they can always change fields, but it would be better if they had that information before registering for university.