Official Languages Committee on May 13th, 2014

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here this morning.

Mr. Caron, you have spoken a great deal about education. You have said that in New Brunswick, the jobs of the future will require post-secondary education.

Do people there realize the extent to which it is important to encourage our young people to finish at least their high school studies and maybe study for three, four, or five years at the college level in order to fill those jobs? If not, who will fill the jobs? Will they be filled by people from outside the province?

[Armand Caron]

Thank you.

We talk a lot about training our people so that they can get a job. The strange thing is that there are actually a lot of jobs. This morning I was reading an article in L'Acadie Nouvelle, a francophone newspaper in New Brunswick, about an employment summit currently taking place in New Brunswick. It said that over the next 10 years it is possible that 40,000 job openings requiring certain qualifications will not be filled. This is not only because of a lack of training. We must ensure that the necessary training is provided so that jobs left open by retiring workers can be filled.

In answer to your question, I would say that people realize that the economy of New Brunswick is changing, particularly in the northern part of the province, which relies heavily on natural resources. Today, businesses are not just in competition with each other, but with businesses from around the world. They need to innovate more and acquire more skills, among other things.

There also needs to be a culture shift in the population. Let me explain. In the past, when young people finished high school, if they did well, they went to university; if they did less well, they went to college. Today, people are realizing that at the national level—and it's the same in our region—a balanced society like ours needs as many trades people and technologists as university graduates. Even in our high schools, the culture needs to change.

Earlier, Mr. Godin asked how we could help those who do not have enough training to get ahead. I think that they will need additional support. We cannot simply tell them to go and get educated and something will come along. They need someone to help guide them. This is where community colleges can offer guidance throughout the training process. Today people, especially young people, are realizing that they will not have a livelihood or a career if they do not continue their education after high school.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

You said that 40,000 jobs will have to be filled over the next 10 years. Is the fact that your province is officially bilingual an advantage for young people? Will almost all of these jobs be bilingual? If not, how many of them will be bilingual?

[Armand Caron]

I do not have any figures for that. Obviously, it can vary from region to region within the province. At the very least, I do not believe that bilingual job-seekers will be at a disadvantage. In my opinion, language is less of an issue than skills.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

In your region, is bilingualism a stepping stone in certain fields? If so, in which ones?

[Armand Caron]

The evidence suggests that our bilingual population helps the province attract businesses.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

My next question is for Mr. Colford.

I would like to know if the labour movement also supports young people by sending the message that it is in their best interest to invest three or four years of their lives, particularly when they are between 16 and 22 years old, to acquire the skills that they will need to have a better quality of life and, what's more, to stay in their province. When those jobs become available, the province will need a skilled labour force. Sooner or later, employers will require these skills.

[Patrick Colford]

I guess the quick answer is that there are certain avenues there, but as we all know in this room, post-secondary education isn't for everybody. I think that's where we lack. The government has a real focus on getting people to university and getting them trained in those fields, but it goes back to what I was saying before with the industrial strategy. Some people are made to work with their hands and they need those apprenticeship programs. They need that boost, that education, even if it's just a GED, something very basic, something very simple.

There are some programs there, but they do not go far enough by any means.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

When it comes to training programs for manual workers, whether they be construction workers, plumbers or from other trades, you are right to say that the work requires tremendous manual dexterity. However, today's tools are so high tech that these two worlds need to come together.

Do 10^th graders in New Brunswick have access to trades training or must they exile themselves to other provinces in order to get it? Is it a matter of critical mass that explains why such training is not offered in the province?

[Patrick Colford]

I think we have the critical mass by all means, but I don't think that it's happening. That being said, take a mechanic, for example. To be a mechanic today takes a higher level of skill in computer knowledge and technological knowledge than maybe 30 years ago.

So, yes, I think the community colleges are doing a wonderful job, but some people just don't have that option available to them for any or some unforeseen reason. I do know that the Province of New Brunswick has started a program they call NBTAP, which is the New Brunswick Teen Apprenticeship Program. It's focused in Saint John at this point. They hope to expand it.

The programs are in place to a certain extent, but again they do not go far enough. There's so much more that needs to be done, especially for people in the north. We have people who leave the north for their education and they don't go back. The reason they don't go back goes back again to the industrial strategy. There's nothing there for them anymore and that's where the real problem lies.

The running joke that we hear a lot in Canada is sometimes the government forgets that there are things east of Montreal. Sometimes in the province of New Brunswick the government forgets there's anything north of Fredericton. So it's going to take a change, it really is.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

Madame St-Denis.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Issues such as the dropout rate, literacy, the situation of women in the labour market and the lack of knowledge are certainly serious, but in my view, they are issues of provincial jurisdiction. We must turn to the provinces if we want to see programs that will improve the situation. Consequently, my questions will not deal with that topic, even though the state of affairs seems a little alarming.

Mr. Caron, I would like to know if your college participates in the trades modernization effort in traditional sectors, such as forestry and fisheries. Is the college devoting any effort to modernizing the skills of future workers in these sectors, their computer skills for example?

[Armand Caron]

Ms. St-Denis, the mission of the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick, in essence, is to meet training needs. If those needs evolve, we must adjust as a result.

The Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick works in partnership with the industry to fully understand what the changing needs of the market are. Ours is a resources heavy region, whether we are talking about mines, the forests or fisheries. That world is always evolving and we must adapt our training to meet both current and future needs.

I must tell you that we do not claim to be going it alone. We must work in partnership with other institutions. In the field of research, knowledge transfer must be updated, but we must also increase knowledge. That's where applied research has a major role to play. As such, the Collège communautaire du Nouveau-Brunswick works in partnership with the Université de Moncton and the University of New Brunswick, along with universities outside of the province, for example Saint Mary's University, in Nova Scotia, and l'Université Laval.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Just how much does the federal government work with French-language institutions in order to develop Acadians' business acumen? Are there specific federal government programs that are likely to help those institutions as you described?

[Armand Caron]

Currently, we get funding from Heritage Canada.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You are talking about the roadmap.

[Armand Caron]

As a training institute, we get funding through the Official Languages in Education Program.

I know that education is a provincial jurisdiction, but sometimes help may arrive from departments other than Heritage Canada, both at the federal and provincial levels. We have been talking about northern New Brunswick, which is rural. Other departments could perhaps help our region and our province by putting in place, for example, a rural policy that would be much broader than one specific training program. We talk a lot about the economy, but we cannot forget the social dimension.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Do you think distance training can stimulate francophones' success in school?

[Armand Caron]

Yes. New Brunswick has a small population that is spread out over a fairly large territory. It is scattered. We can reach a lot of people using distance education. There are not enough teachers to give training everywhere. Given the situation, distance education is very important.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

I will now turn to Mr. Dubé.

I apologize for rushing along, but my speaking time is limited.

In the communication between francophones and anglophones in Moncton today, do you still experience the stigma of the institutional racism that you lived through under mayor Jones? Has communication been re-established or is it still difficult? People say Moncton is a bilingual city and that sounds good, but what is everyday reality like?

[Jacques Dubé]

Things are going well in Moncton still. That mentality is now long gone. The Greater Moncton Chamber of Commerce is a bilingual organization. It includes both anglophone and francophone entrepreneurs, who work together very well. The current city council comprises 11 members, 6 of whom are francophones. In mayor Jones' time, I think that was 1 out of 11.

The situation has changed a lot and it's mainly due to the economy. Things are going well in Moncton from an economic standpoint. The economy is diversified. In Moncton, there are as many francophone business people as there are anglophone ones. I mentioned one just now, Larry Nelson, who is the owner of the Lounsbury Group. It's a big company with a lot of employees, both anglophone and francophone. There are also the Irvings. Robert Irving is another anglophone who hires as many francophones as anglophones. He has as many operations in Dieppe, which is officially francophone, as in Moncton.

Currently, I see no communication problems between anglophones and francophones.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

You say that six members of the city council are francophones.

[Jacques Dubé]

Yes.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

What is the percentage of francophones in the city administration? Is it the same percentage?

[Jacques Dubé]

No, I would say that the ratio is more like 70-30.