Official Languages Committee on May 15th, 2014

[Guy Rodgers]

That could take an hour or two to talk about. The digital shift—the transfer of product to the Internet, free content, free music—has had a devastating effect on the revenues of many artists, and it's not specific to anglophone artists.

Young people are used to getting free content or cheap content. We've developed a generation that doesn't really want to pay for arts and culture. They appreciate it; they consume it, but they don't want to pay for it. Any artistic discipline that can be distributed on the Internet—books, records, films—is struggling with this: how to find some way of making it open and free, but at the same time allow the creators to have some sort of fair return on their personal ownership. We don't have an answer.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Having said that, has that created greater artistic opportunities for people to create movies with just a cellphone and things like that? Has it expanded arts and culture?

[Guy Rodgers]

The expense of production has plummeted, absolutely. Once upon a time, you would have had to rent a studio this large and pay $10,000 a day to have a certain quality of music that you can now record in your bathroom with your computer. After having created that music or that film, the distribution and making some money from it is a challenge. Creating quality product inexpensively is certainly within the reach of anybody who is creative.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Along those lines, what is a creative economy? Does a creative economy exist in an anglophone community in Quebec? How does it compare with the francophone version?

[Guy Rodgers]

Well, there are two answers. QUESCREN, the Quebec English-Speaking Communities Research Network, did a study three years ago on the social economy and how it applied to English Quebec, and it ties into things like tourism, to ways of monetizing artistic activities. CEDEC, the Community Economic Development and Employability Corporation, is in the process of doing a study on tourism and the economic benefits of tourism. We're starting to try to identify the needs.

Essentially, the creative economy as defined over the last 10 years is about bringing together people who create art spontaneously, who create an environment in which people find it interesting to live. A city with a creative class will attract other industries and creative types. Since we live in a post-manufacturing era, when creative jobs are more important, a city that can attract those creative types will stimulate its economy and will create jobs. There's no better place in Canada for that to be happening than Quebec, and because a lot of people in North America still speak English, the fact that they could have English-language arts within Quebec is an important factor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much.

We're going to go to Monsieur Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to all of you. It's not the first time we have met each other. It's nice to see you back at this parliamentary committee.

I think in Quebec about 85% of the anglophones speak French. Is it about that percentage?

[Guy Rodgers]

The overall is 85%, and once you get into the younger demographics, under 40, it's 90% to 92%.

An interesting factor is that half of the anglos in Quebec are in romantic relationships with francophones. That's a fact. It's an extraordinary fact. It's a strategy of survival, perhaps, but I can't think of any other community in the world in which a minority is that closely related to the majority.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The reason I raise this question is to tell you it's similar for us in New Brunswick. One thing that is positive about being a minority is that you learn the two languages. You have no choice. You know how we feel, I'm sure, because you feel the same way we feel. You're a minority. You have lots of work to do to try to survive. I share that with you. Coming from the north of New Brunswick, from the Acadian peninsula, we have to work hard.

You could maybe find many judges who are bilingual from our two groups too.

[Guy Rodgers]

We should have more exchanges, absolutely.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As far refugees are concerned, Ms. St-Denis said the government was going to try to get them set up in the regions. I think she misspoke. I think the government meant immigrants, not refugees. There needs to be programs to provide refugees with work, but I think the target is truly immigrants.

In Moncton, for example, our goal is to welcome francophone immigrants in our region to ensure that the francophone population remains viable. Do you agree with that?

[Serge Kaptegaine]

Yes, what you say is true, but it should be noted that when Canada accepts someone from abroad, a refugee, that person has immigrant status. It's just his experience as a refugee that's not there, but he is considered an immigrant.

That is what we must focus on so that they're integrated easily. It's been tough for refugees in the past. If we don't consider that reality, and don't educate that person, they'll get lost.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I completely agree with you.

Mr. MacGibbon.

[Peter MacGibbon]

Yes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The other question is about the cuts to CBC/Radio-Canada. How does that affect the minority of Quebec, for example? You're talking about the arts and culture, and all of that. CBC, for example.... How could you participate in national television if you do it in Montreal. If all the arts and all of that are in Montreal, then how do the people of

Rivière-au-Renard see you?

How do those cuts affect you? Do they affect the anglophones of Quebec?

[Guy Rodgers]

The effects are incalculable. If we look at television, there were recently some conditions of licence imposed upon CBC last year to create more locally with local producers. That is now potentially in jeopardy. There's the question of production, which is important. There's a question of how radio promotes local talent.

There's a major rock station in Montreal called CHOM, which was one of the pioneer radio stations. It plays rock and roll. It plays music from the 1960s and 1970s. Only two years ago did they realize there's music being made in Montreal now.

CBC figured this out decades ago. CBC has been a loyal supporter. They have an entire website devoted to Canadian music. CBC has been the greatest champion of the arts, much more than commercial radio or television. I'll let the Townshippers' and Peter talk about the benefit of CBC in the regions. Once you get outside of Montreal, you just don't have that many options. CBC is a lifeline to connecting with the rest of Quebec and the rest of Canada.

[Peter MacGibbon]

I'll just add to that. The cuts are really going to hurt. They're hurting already. At our last board meeting, which was just this week, our treasurer, who's a professional musician—

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Sorry, Mr. MacGibbon.

Madam Bateman.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, with some respect to all our witnesses and to our colleagues, the cuts that we're talking about here do not exist. The reality is—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That's not a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Just one moment. Let's let Madam Bateman have the floor.

[Joyce Bateman, Conservative, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It is very important for us to realize that the market has changed.

The revenues for advertising have diminished for CBC because they don't have as many viewers. That's the point. There have been no government cuts.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Madam Bateman.

That's not a point of order. It's a point of debate.

Mr. MacGibbon, you have the floor.

[Peter MacGibbon]

I was just going to say that it was reported at our board meeting that CBC will be phasing out all the live recordings of music, new live recordings of music across the board by a certain date. I forget what the date is, but it's coming up relatively soon. The CBC live recordings have been a major way of promoting arts and music, especially all across Canada. There's an example where an entire discipline is going to feel the shock of change in the CBC, whether you define it as cuts or other things.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You heard what was said from the government, Madam Bateman. No, the cut by the government last year of $115 million from CBC/Radio-Canada has been hurting CBC/Radio-Canada. Removing the index that has been going to CBC, which is on the wages and the expenses of CBC, is money. If you don't give it to them, that is cuts. It's very clear. The president of CBC came here and told us at one of our meetings last week that the index was gone. The $115 million that was cut last year on a three-year basis, they are feeling it now. It's not only the advertising; it's everything that's been going around.

Going back to the region you represent, it's not just around Montreal. Does it go right up to Rivière-au-Renard?