Official Languages Committee on May 30th, 2019

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

You do.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I was wondering if you could talk a little about why we always seem to have such a negative impression of languages in minority situations, whether it's French outside Quebec or English inside Quebec. Instead of making such a negative association all the time, like a battle, is there a way of making it very positive and celebratory?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think what we have to do is look at it as a fundamental Canadian value. Part of the Canadian identity is very much about pluralism. It's very much about diversity. It should not just be about diversity of cultures, but about diversity of languages, which is part of our identity.

Canada is a work in progress. Canada 20 years from now will not be what it is today, and that's our strength. What we have to do is always speak about fundamental Canadian values. I think when we talk about official languages and we talk about first languages, we should be talking about that being a fundamental value of Canadian identity. That's how we should promote it, not as an obligation but as a value.

[Robert-Falcon Ouellette, Liberal, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Thank you, Commissioner.

For the last person questioning,

Mrs. Boucher, you have four minutes.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Good morning.

I am amazed that we are still having this discussion in 2019. In a speech I made in the House on gender equality, I said that it is also time to talk about the equality of French and English. Today, in 2019, we are talking a lot about language equality.

However, could you explain what you mean by an oversight mechanism for the Official Languages Act. We want to modernize the act and you talked about an oversight mechanism. What would such a mechanism look like?

[Raymond Théberge]

We have been talking about language equality for a long time. One major decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, R. v. Beaulac, talks about substantive equality. I feel that we must codify certain concepts in the act, including substantive language equality.

Substantive equality means that the remedial nature of language rights are recognized. More must be done; we must never forget that the Official Languages Act is quasi-constitutional and, as such, it forms part of our Canadian values. Honestly, we are a long way from that.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

That is what I say.

[Raymond Théberge]

In terms of compliance, it is important to recognize that the commissioner's powers are limited to conducting investigations and making recommendations. Other compliance mechanisms must be added, either binding agreements or monetary penalties. Establishing a tribunal is another idea. It is all essential.

We were wondering earlier what can be done to change behaviours. Without compliance mechanisms, behaviours will not change. People can talk about giving the act more teeth, but, to do that, the office of the commissioner will have to be given more powers than simply making recommendations.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Have you finished?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Yes. Do I have any time left?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

You have one minute.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Go ahead, Mr. Clarke

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Thank you, Mrs. Boucher.

Mr. Choquette has honourably given up his three minutes.

Commissioner, I have two questions for you, and I am sure that Mr. Samson will be happy to hear the first one.

I would like to talk about bilingualism for the justices of the Supreme Court of Canada. I do not think I am mistaken in saying that all members of this committee would like to see the legislation change so that the justices of the Supreme Court of Canada must be bilingual. After all, we all voted in favour of Mr. Choquette's commendable bill.

I have a special request for you, which goes beyond the work of this committee. We only have three weeks left, but you have at least six years.

At the moment, there is a serious problem. Some lawyers from the Department of Justice claim to be constitutional experts, and some really are. Let me throw this idea at you, although I do not know whether you have the authority to do it. They do not work for nothing, but would you be able to employ some constitutional experts to help you to write a legal text, a solid, well-supported counter-argument in opposition to the legal minds in the Department of Justice? That is a text that we could use in the future.

We need you. As members of Parliament, we do not have the resources we need to employ eminent constitutional scholars, but your office does. You have a substantial budget. Would it be worthwhile to prepare a constitutional argument in support of Mr. Choquette's motion?

[Raymond Théberge]

At the symposium held at the beginning of the week, we discussed the bilingualism of Supreme Court justices. There was a whole debate about whether it is constitutional or not. You can always seek out a legal opinion, but you then fall into that world. At a certain point, Parliament will have to decide. In principle—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

At the moment, there is no counter-argument, and that is the problem.

[Raymond Théberge]

It is always possible. We can always—

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Consider it, please. We need your help on this.

Finally, Commissioner, I want to thank you for the work you have done in the last year, especially for your second report. I want you to know that you have our moral support. We are with you. You do not stand alone in Canada. You have important tasks and heavy responsibilities. I strongly encourage you to continue in the same direction, even to exert a little more pressure, no matter which government is in power. You have nothing to fear. I want to say that we support you. Surveys seem to demonstrate that most Canadians support your work, and that is positive. I really want you to know that we are behind you. In turn, we expect you to be behind us.

Thank you for appearing before us today, Commissioner.

My thanks to my colleagues for their questions.

Would you like to say a few words?

[Raymond Théberge]

At the risk or repeating myself, I would just like to say that we appreciate the support from your committee a great deal, and the work that you do.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Thank you very much. This is probably the last time that we will welcome you to this committee in the 42nd Parliament.

We will pause for 15 minutes and then resume in camera to focus on our work.

[Proceedings continued in camera.]