Official Languages Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2016

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'm very happy to hear that. Congratulations; that's considerably higher than the percentages we're are seeing elsewhere in the country.

You also said that there's been a 25% increase in the number of students enrolled in francophone schools. That's very impressive. Could you briefly tell me about your winning strategy?

[Robert Therrien]

In my opinion, the winning strategy is to work with employers, encourage them to hire francophone immigrants, and make it easier for them to hire them. I'm referring to an anglophone employer clientele, which we need to convince that hiring francophones is good for business.

We need to work with immigrants in the community as a whole. As I said earlier, It takes an entire community to help them integrate, and to work with them on intake, settlement, education, legal services, and other services. The more they integrate, the more likely they are to remain.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I very much agree.

If you have an action plan or document on the subject, could you send it to us? We would like to have it, because your francophone community is one of the country's leaders in immigrant recruitment. We'd like to know your secret. I very much agree that the connection between immigration and employability is strong. You've been doing it from the start. You recruit and welcome people, and use other methods. Before we move on to the next witness, I have a question for you about the census.

We've returned to a longer-form census, and we're working on the questions for the next census. If I understand correctly, certain questions are missing because, for the moment, people don't want to state the true number of francophones and bilingual people in the provinces. No precise questions on the subject are asked. Do you have any comments about the census?

[Robert Therrien]

It's true. The census data do not provide an overall picture of the people who speak or know French in Canada, because the issue is always mother tongue. The real issue should be bilingualism.

Having lived in a rural community during the first 40 years of my life, I know that the family member chosen to fill out the questionnaire can sometimes make a difference. Essentially, no true portrait of the population that understands and speaks French in Canada exists.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

If you have any suggestions, or questions to ask on the subject, this would be the time.

My next question will be for Ms. Brouillette.

I must congratulate you, because people need to understand that section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which provides support for public schools that teach children ages five through 18, does not refer to colleges, universities, or day care centres. This has therefore been a major problem.

I acknowledge that the Fédération nationale des conseils scolaires francophones—that is, the national federation of French school boards—and the Table nationale sur l'éducation—the national education roundtable—are developing a more precise picture of this challenge throughout the country.

If we don't get the children when they're youngest, and we don't convince those who are finishing their studies at francophone schools to pursue their post-secondary studies in French, that's a problem. You've done exceptional work on this, and I thank you for it.

I'd like you to give us a few examples of collective projects. In minority communities, based on the situation, one must find ways and means, and one must be innovative and creative. It's really important to have strategies to ensure the projects are successful. You were talking about collective projects. Could you give us a few examples of that? I'm very interested in that. I know you do good work.

[Lynn Brouillette]

I would also like to talk about the continuum. After that, I will provide concrete examples.

A bit earlier, the importance for young people to start in the francophone system in early childhood was mentioned, because it's well known that every time there's a sensitive transition, many of the children are lost.

We're the last link in the chain that constitutes this continuum. That's why we also work on the question of day care with RDÉE Canada and the Commission nationale des parents francophones. Our institutions train the people who work in day cares. That's why we also work with the Commission nationale des parents francophones on the continuum question. This has to be seen as a whole, because it's very important. It's the route that needs to be promoted to the community.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I'm happy you brought up this aspect. If French programs were implemented for all students nationwide, the number of students in our schools would double or triple.

Could you give us a few examples of matched projects?

[Lynn Brouillette]

There are two major components to our collective projects: program creation and offer; and the development of support services for promotion, recruitment and retention in our institutions.

Given where the institutions are at, we are no longer considering developing programs exclusively for their respective territories, whether it be the Université de Moncton, the Université de Saint-Boniface, or the Collège Éducacentre in Vancouver. We've been working together since 2003. It's an important aspect of our model.

The fact that our association has achieved a certain maturity means that when we develop programs, we gather at the table, notify the people of the needs we have, determine whether there are other needs, and work on developing a program together. It's always from a nationwide perspective. That's what makes our network strong. Even though the provinces have jurisdiction, it's always developed in such a way that it's available throughout Canada.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, François Choquette]

Many thanks, Ms. Brouillettte and Mr. Samson.

We must now begin the last series of questions and answers.

You each have three minutes.

We'll begin with Mr. Lefebvre,

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Brouillette, you mentioned an interesting point about teachers. In Sudbury, many people get a degree from the faculty of education at Laurentian University, but there are no jobs there. That's what one of my staffers, who got a degree from that faculty, has confirmed to me. Nowadays, you have to go to Quebec or France. The people who have acquired training might not want to move.

We have very good programs—in Ontario, there's the University of Ottawa, and Laurentian University in Sudbury—and we have graduates from those programs.

As far as our current system is concerned, what, in your opinion, is the challenge to be met?

[Lynn Brouillette]

Incidentally, I'm a graduate of Laurentian's faculty of education, and I also have a degree from the University of Ottawa.

My understanding is that the challenge is mainly about immersion teachers, and teachers who teach French. I think the shortage is biggest there. At least that's what people in the jurisdiction are saying.

Some people say there are fewer jobs, but as someone who had a career in education, I would say the situation appears mainly to be affecting urban areas. This is because people tend to want to settle near where their school or faculty was located.

By way of illustration, the shortage might be less serious in Sudbury. In Foleyet, Smooth Rock Falls, or the southern part of the province, such teachers are in great need. It's a question of mobility, and of whether one is prepared to travel to secure employment.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you. I wanted to ensure this point was clarified.

As far as post-secondary infrastructure is concerned, what challenges are your members facing?

[Lynn Brouillette]

That's an excellent question. I'm happy to have the opportunity to talk about it.

In the coming years, we could implement services if we receive significant funding. There's extraordinary potential on the immersion side, for example. Indeed, many people can adopt a linguistically dual lifestyle, and represent the way we want ourselves, and our country, to be.

There's enormous investment in immersion schools, but after that, the students are forgotten. If few students study in French at the post-secondary level, and they only pursue such studies 10 to 15 years later, it should not be surprising that more than half of them say they are no longer bilingual at that stage.

Our network would be able to help them. We could offer them more programs that might interest them. We already have a nice range of programs. We have nearly 1,000 French programs in the jurisdiction. But there need to be incentives for these people to enrol in our programs. There are very good universities in many communities, but the people who want to study in French at the post-secondary level have to travel. A person who wants to study law will have to go to Moncton or Ottawa.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, François Choquette]

Thanks very much, Ms. Brouillette.

Thanks very much, Mr. Lefebvre.

We now give the floor to Mrs. Boucher, who has three minutes.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I had two or three questions, but I'll continue on the topic of infrastructure, because I want to understand that situation properly.

Communities want infrastructure, and we've heard a lot about that. Immersion schools are built, and then, after 15 years or so, the clientele is lost. The infrastructure ends up being used for only a short time.

When you request money for infrastructure, is it for long-term projects? How will it help you if, as you say, immersion is dropped after 15 years? That's what I have a hard time understanding.

[Lynn Brouillette]

When I speak of infrastructure, I'm not referring to buildings. I'm referring to the service infrastructure in our colleges and universities.

Simon Fraser University, which is one of our members and offers some French programming in Vancouver, is an example. The university has put a very interesting program in place for clients who come to them from an immersion context.

That's the kind of structure I'm talking about. The service infrastructure. Bear in mind that people who studied in immersion schools often feel uncomfortable about their second language proficiency, even though 18% of them consider themselves bilingual. They are somewhat insecure. They wonder whether their French is good enough to enable them to study in French at the post-secondary level. You can see that there's a lot of promotion to be done. In addition, there needs to be the capacity to take in these students and provide them support services. Since our clienteles at the college and university levels are very diverse, we need that support infrastructure.

The University of Ottawa has also implemented an extraordinary program to take in immersion students. The additional services made available to these students help them with their efforts. They are support services.

At Simon Fraser, a community-based program, whose name I've forgotten, was put in place. The linguistic duality I dream about, means knowing not just a language, but a community. It means being interested in that community, and loving it.

So it's more than simply knowledge of the language. That's how we see the Canada of our dreams. That's what we're talking about. We want an immersion program, and we also want to provide support for people who graduate from those programs. It's not just a question of language; it's a question of love for the people you've been living with all your life. That, to me, is the social contract.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, François Choquette]

Thank you very much, Ms. Brouillette and Mrs. Boucher.

We have little time remaining, but if the committee will permit, I will nonetheless take two minutes to talk about the roadmap.

Ms. Brouillette, the Réseau national de formation en justice, a francophone legal education network, has been around since 2014. I think it's an excellent initiative. In fact, the Commissioner of Official Languages has worked very hard on access to French in universities. He tabled a report on the subject in 2013.

The Minister of Canadian Heritage, who was here last week, said that she has started work on implementing the recommendations. I don't know whether you were consulted, or if you eventually will be, but, with respect to access to justice in both official languages throughout the country, what recommendations or applications do you hope will be proposed? What help do you hope to get from the federal government, and from the Honourable Mélanie Joly, Minister of Canadian Heritage?

[Lynn Brouillette]

Thank you very much for asking that question, Mr. Choquette. I haven't had much opportunity to talk about the justice field, and you're giving me the opportunity to return to it.

A study done by the Department of Justice has shown that we need to train four times more professionals in the justice field. Equitable access to services doesn't just mean equitable access to the courts. It also means equitable access to the justice system. That includes not only lawyers and judges, but also police officers, correctional officers, and other people who gravitate around the justice system.

It's a field we hope to develop. We want to build on the successes we achieved in the health field, while keeping a Canada-wide perspective. The network we've assembled includes nine of our institutions, but there are also external groups like the Association des juristes d'expression française du Nouveau-Brunswick, which provides language training. They are members of the network managed by our association.

We would like to grow this network considerably, to better meet the needs of justiciables, who are vulnerable people. The reason we've addressed the justice and health fields first is that an individual who needs health care or is dealing with the justice system is in a very vulnerable position. In such situations, people want to express themselves in their language. When people are experiencing mental health problems, or problems with the justice system, they want to speak in the language with which they are most comfortable.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, François Choquette]

I'd like to express this committee's gratitude to Ms. Brouillette, the Association des collèges et universités de la francophonie canadienne, and Robert Therrien of the Conseil économique et coopératif de la Saskatchewan. Your testimony has been very helpful and beneficial to the committee. We thank you for it.

The meeting is adjourned.