Official Languages Committee on March 21st, 2018

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank you for being with us today. I appreciate it.

As my colleague said earlier, we were frankly anxious to know whether, today, you still doubted the relevance of properly enumerating rights-holders under section 23. From what I understand, you don't doubt it anymore.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I can just say that I have never doubted the relevance of doing so. The key issue was determining how to do it.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Right.

Formerly, we didn't cover all of section 23; it was missing an element.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

There is no doubt about that.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

So you're saying that you are working hard.

Earlier, you talked about challenges and complexity. You said that you would send us the questions by March 31. Do you think you'll manage to meet this deadline?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Absolutely.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You gave us a table of the content determination process. First, there is the consultation with users of census data. This has already been done. Then, you are planning a test. So you are going to give us the questions and then do a qualitative test. After that, in the summer of 2019, there will be a test of the content. Finally, there will be a presentation to cabinet in the fall of 2019 and the winter of 2020. That's a bit late.

I imagine you know that there will be elections in October 2019. So this can't wait until 2019.

I'm simply saying that the schedule you're giving us today doesn't work. It's clear. You have to arrange it so that, before the session, meaning one year from now, we know exactly where we are going.

I have the floor, but I have the impression that we all agree on this. It is imperative that we have the questions next year, in the spring of 2019. I'm really sorry, but despite the good job you've done, this doesn't work. It must move faster than that.

The next census is in 2021. You can't push back the deadline. We were already talking about it in 1990. We can't push it back for the rights-holders, whether it's the francophones or the anglophones I represent. We all experience challenges and complexity.

Could you tell me how you will arrive at a solution next year, and not in the fall of 2019?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

The schedule that was proposed to you is proven. It has been discussed and has been part of every census consultation since it was done. It's important to understand that there is a series of qualitative tests in the spring, that is, we meet with people to make sure they understand the questions, so that we can establish whether the questions pose a problem. Subsequently, having no choice, we must test these questions with a group of Canadians. As you can imagine, it's not just the matter of language in the census: a lot of questions have to be tested. So it's an extremely complex process that applies to the whole of Canadian society.

I can assure you that the schedule provided to you is fully in line with the standards and is based on scientific and methodological considerations. I understand your concerns about the government, but that won't change the operations of Statistics Canada, which is determined to enumerate the rights-holders in the best way in the 2021 census.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

If I understand properly, this schedule is carved in stone, and we can't change it.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

We can't change it just because there are political considerations, for instance. It must be based on proven and sound methodology. I can also say that an army of scientists are working on that. We talked about complexity, and it's very real. It isn't enough to say that we all experience it.

Statistics Canada has brought together members of an advisory committee who are experts on this subject, and there has been a lot of disagreement on some aspects. Imagine people who aren't familiar with this topic and who are asked our questions. Where should we put these questions? What path do we need to take to ensure that Canadians understand? We need to test all these questions, including the other questions that relate to the ethnocultural field, work, and so on.

All that to say, this is part of the collection of census information. It's not just the rights-holders that we have to enumerate as part of this process.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand very well that it isn't just the rights-holders that you have to enumerate. Since the 2016 census was published, believe me, I look at the data quite often to find out who is in my riding and who lives there.

However, here at the Standing Committee on Official Languages, we may be more concerned with official languages and rights-holders.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I agree with you.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand everything about demographics. For example, you ask if a household has zero, one, two, three or four children.

However, with respect to official languages, the census has implications for the education of future generations. My friend Darrell Samson did not receive an education in French when he was young, and Mr. Lefebvre, who is not here, was among the first to manage to obtain education in French. Statistics Canada has a vital role to play because, as a result of the census, school boards have the opportunity to get the money related to the number of students.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

I fully agree with all of that, Ms. Lapointe.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm confident you understand this.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Absolutely.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Our government is very present. You're talking about science, well, it invests in science, and all the measures that are taken must be based on science.

Following the last budget, Statistics Canada received additional money. So presenting us with a schedule that I don't think meets our expectations is not for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Lapointe.

Mr. Choquette, you have the floor.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here again today.

I think we'll invite you back. We need a lot of updates, especially since this process will take place in several stages.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

You like us.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Yes, we like you. We are going to keep you very close.

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

We feel it.

[Some hon. members]

Ha, ha!

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I have a few questions for you.

You completed the pan-Canadian consultation on February 9. I don't remember if we received the list of people, of experts or organizations met. Is it relevant that we keep an eye on this?

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

In fact, people across Canada have provided details, particularly in the area of languages. You can imagine that several people mentioned aspects concerning rights-holders, which isn't a surprise. They all pointed to the interest and relevance of gathering information.

I think that at the meetings of our advisory committee, at Statistics Canada, we got quite a good representation. The members of this committee were some of the best experts on the subject in Canada. So there is an interesting balance between the public collection of opinions and wishes. There is a lot on all the subjects.