Official Languages Committee on Aug. 12th, 2020

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, we are not here to take WE Charity to task, but rather to find out what the government did to arrive at this decision regarding the $912 million. The Liberals may not know whether this organization is bilingual enough to manage the program, but WE does, because it turned to NATIONAL to solve its problems in Quebec and in the francophonie.

We are therefore totally opposed to the amendment proposed by our colleague. Who would have thought that one day the Liberals would want to go after WE Charity in a parliamentary committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm also against it, because WE's ability to provide services is very theoretical. What we want to know above all is whether the government has taken the necessary measures to ensure that the services are truly equitable for francophones and anglophones alike.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Chong, the floor is yours.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I cannot support this amendment, because it is clear that WE is not in a position to offer this program in both official languages. It's in the contract, of course, but obviously they have to turn to another organization for their services.

It's clear that the issue here isn't whether or not WE Charity had the capacity to deliver the program in the French language. It's clear that they did not have that capacity. That's why they contracted with National. The issue here also isn't whether or not the contract signed on June 23, backdated to May 5, contained clauses that mandated the delivery of the program in both official languages. All federal contracts have those requirements as a basic standard. The issue here is “the government's decision”, and the amendment would eliminate those two words from the motion. The issue here is the government's decision.

The government has said for weeks that the reason the WE organization got the contract was twofold. The first was that it was recommended by the federal bureaucracy, and that the Liberal cabinet ministers had nothing to do with it. It's come to light in recent days, even yesterday, that this was not the case. Liberal cabinet ministers were heavily involved in helping WE craft a second proposal to meet the requirements of delivering this program. The second thing the government has maintained, right from day one, is that the WE organization was the only organization in the country that could deliver this program. That's also clearly not the case.

The issue here is not the capacity of the WE organization to deliver programs in both official languages. It's the disconnect between the Prime Minister's assertion that the WE Charity is the only organization that could possibly have been able to deliver this program and the fact that it couldn't. It had to contract out the delivery of this program to a lobby group, the National lobby group, that would deliver part of these services to 25% of Canadians whose first official language is French.

That's the issue here, and that's the reason I cannot support the amendment.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Chong.

Go ahead, Ms. Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

This amendment would at least correct the motion so that it is no longer a lie. It takes away the fact that there is no presence in Quebec, when we've already stated that there is proof that there is a presence in Quebec. It states that, again, it's an anglophone organization.

We know that it has delivered conferences in French prior to the pandemic, which means prior to any decisions being made, prior to hiring National. Not only that, but their website has been in French since 2017. This is an organization.... Maybe the chairperson of the organization is an anglophone, but that doesn't mean the organization does not provide services in French; it does. It is clear. Anybody can go look up the website. Anybody can look up their Facebook page and see clearly that WE Montreal is solely in French.

I'm not sure how much clearer it could be that, as the motion was originally, it is just a lie. We're basically assuming that they would not have been able to do what we wanted them to do in both official languages. Before we even get to a motion like this, we have to study whether or not they would have been able to accomplish this goal. I don't understand why we have a problem with the amendment when it just corrects the facts. It just makes it a motion that isn't a lie. It makes it so that we can study whether or not WE had the capacity to deliver these services in both official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Lambropoulos.

The debate is still open. There's no one on the list.

Are there any further comments?

Hearing none, meaning that we don't want to debate it any more, Madam Clerk, please proceed with the recorded division on this amendment, as tabled by Ms. Lattanzio.

(Amendment negatived: yeas 5; nays 6)

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have an amendment to propose.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

The floor is yours, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Chair, we have been discussing this for quite a while now, and we have been sensitive to each other's comments.

I will read the whole text as amended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay. Go ahead, Mr. Deltell.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

We propose that the Committee undertake a study on the government's decision to select WE Charity to administer the Canada Student Service Grant; that the Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages, the Honourable Mélanie Joly, be invited to appear for at least two hours before September 4, 2020.

The reason why we are proposing this, Mr. Chair, is that, first of all, in response to what the government members have said, we are removing the reference to “a unilingual anglophone organization with no presence in Quebec”. We are sensitive to that statement and we are therefore acting on their concern.

We are also responding to the concern of Mr. Beaulieu of the Bloc Québécois about the date. We are therefore pushing August 21 back to September 4.

We are also proposing to add to the witnesses the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, the Honourable Bardish Chagger, the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez, President of the Treasury Board, the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos, NATIONAL Public Relations, WE Charity, and the Commissioner of Official Languages, Raymond Théberge.

We therefore want to give other ministers, such as Mr. Rodriguez and Mr. Duclos, a chance to come and testify and give their version of the facts about this event.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Deltell.

Again, since we don't have a hard copy, I want to make sure that all members of the committee understand the essence of this amendment.

I'm going to let you discuss it amongst yourselves. So I'm going to suspend the meeting while we clarify the motion. It seems to me that several amendments are being put together.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Let us resume.

As I recall, just before the break there was some discussion on Mr. Deltell's amendment. To clarify the situation, I would ask Mr. Deltell to slowly resume reading this amendment, since we don't have copies available.

Mr. Deltell, you have the floor.

[Gérard Deltell, Conservative, Louis-Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to all my colleagues.

The motion reads as follows:

That the Committee undertake a study on the government's decision to select WE Charity to administer the Canada Student Service Grant;

That the Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages, the Honourable Mélanie Joly, be invited to appear for at least two hours between September 1 and September 11, 2020;

That other witnesses include, but are not limited to:

a) the Minister of Diversity and Inclusion and Youth, the Honourable Bardish Chagger;

b) the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, the Honourable Pablo Rodriguez;

c) the President of the Treasury Board, the Honourable Jean-Yves Duclos;

d) NATIONAL Public Relations Inc.;

e) WE Charity; and

f) the Commissioner of Official Languages, Raymond Théberge.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you.

I understand the motion. There was an amendment from Mr. Godin. So everything we do now is on the amendment.

I have confirmation from the clerk that this amendment is in order.

On the list, I see Mr. Green and then Mrs. Lalonde.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Mrs. Lalonde, you have the floor.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I spoke to you about this during the break, but I would just like to make sure of one thing.

I have a lot of difficulty including dates. We know that it depends on people's availability. We must not forget that September 1 is close to the long Labour Day weekend in Canada. We have to take that into account. It will be September 4, 5, 6 and 7. So it will be Monday. I do not know what to think of the date.

Perhaps it would be appropriate to propose a subamendment to the amendment for the minister and her officials. My dear colleague proposes that the Minister of Economic Development and Official Languages, the Honourable Mélanie Joly, be invited to appear for at least two hours.

I would therefore like her officials to be invited as well, and I would like to remove the dates, if possible.

Madam Clerk, I would like to move a subamendment that would invite “the minister and her officials”.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

So we have a subamendment.

First, let's remember the idea of the amendment. Now we have this subamendment that basically takes out the dates and adds officials to come with the minister.

Let us start the debate on this subamendment.

I will keep going through my list. Mrs. Romanado was next.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

I am not going to comment because I wanted to speak to the amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Okay.

Mr. Beaulieu, your name was next on the list.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I'm told that our meeting is no longer being broadcast on ParlVu.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'll check with the technician.