Official Languages Committee on Dec. 10th, 2020

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Beaulieu. If you don't mind, I'll let our executive director answer that question.

[Ali Chaisson, Executive Director, Société de l'Acadie du Nouveau-Brunswick]

In terms of incongruity, there are different levels of scope. It might seem odd that a Canadian province, in this case New Brunswick, has official language provisions that far exceed the federal government's obligations in the same territory. That's what is meant by incongruity. It can be measured in Part IV of the Official Languages Act, the part that pertains to the delivery of services to the public. It says “where numbers warrant”. That's at the federal level. This limit does not exist in New Brunswick.

Thus, any amendment or modernization of the act should also confirm for New Brunswickers that services in both official languages should be equally accessible at the federal and provincial levels. This is just one example among many.

Taking that even further, if we talk about asymmetry, we would never be so pretentious or greedy as to use the specificity of one province's number against that of another province, knowing that the second province might have more limited language rights and not have access to the same services.

What do we think of that?

Any amendment or modernization of the federal legislation should allow all of Canada, but particularly New Brunswick because of the specificity of its provincial official languages legislation, to expedite services so that they are much more prevalent where census questions indicate that a given region is more likely to need a service, without being hindered by that very provision.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chaisson.

I'll go to Mr. Doucet, and I'd like to address another point.

In your speech, you cited a comment that defined you as an Acadian, but also as a Canadian, to the extent that Canada helps you be Acadian. Acadians have the lowest assimilation rate, even though it's rising.

Do you think Acadians were right to choose Canada and Confederation?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

That's an excellent question, and I'm going to give it a politician's answer.

I think we'll obviously have no choice but to consider other options if the New Brunswick government can't guarantee New Brunswick's Acadians a defence of the French language, and if the federal government can't put on his pants and defend French for minorities such as the Acadian nation in New Brunswick.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have 30 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

In that case, I have a question for the QCGN.

I'm quite surprised at the survey finding that 38% of anglophones in Quebec couldn't obtain satisfactory services in English from the federal government. And yet the commissioner didn't tell us that he hadn't received a lot of complaints from Quebec during the pandemic.

How do you explain that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Pardon me, but your time is up, Mr. Beaulieu.

Perhaps you can come back and ask your question again in another round.

Go ahead, Ms. Ashton. You have six minutes.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for their testimony today. I'll begin with questions for Ms. Chundunsing from British Columbia.

Ms. Chundunsing, your testimony was really powerful and important. I'd like you to tell us more.

Can you describe for us the typical profile of new francophone Canadians arriving in Vancouver and British Columbia?

Can you tell us why access to French-language services is so important for them?

[Padminee Chundunsing]

As regards French-language services, I think that all francophone newcomers want to be served in the language they're accustomed to using. Providing French-language services is one way for us to retain those francophones in British Columbia. It's very hard to retain them right now. If we don't offer services to francophones here, they'll go elsewhere. It's very important for us that these French-language services be offered to newcomers.

I'd also like to emphasize that not all francophones who arrive here are bilingual. Once again, it's very important to have services in French so we can retain them. We have to help them; we have to integrate them. I myself am an immigrant, and I think that being served in the language in which I am used to living is very important.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Thank you for your answer. I have one more question for you.

You mentioned access to domestic violence response services. We know that domestic violence and violence against women have increased during the pandemic. It's really very disturbing.

You discussed the almost dismissive attitude that public servants had toward the idea of offering French-language services. So there's a cultural problem preventing them from understanding how important it is to provide those services. Initiatives should be introduced for officials to adopt new skills and particularly to learn French.

What do you think is lacking for public servants to develop those skills and provide services in French?

[Padminee Chundunsing]

Once again, we come back to the idea of modernizing the act. I think it's now necessary for public servants to be bilingual. We won't be able to provide those services if we don't have bilingual public servants.

It's true, as I said in my report, that the number of domestic violence cases has increased because women don't know where to turn for help.

I think we've reached a point where modernization has become urgently necessary.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Absolutely. I very much appreciate the fact that you've stressed this very serious problem affecting women and, as you said in your testimony, francophone women in British Columbia.

Let's talk about public services and the public servants who will have to be bilingual and speak French.

Do you think a financial incentive would help people understand why they should learn French and serve francophones in British Columbia?

Do you think an enhanced bilingualism bonus might be useful?

[Padminee Chundunsing]

I would add that British Columbia is the only province that doesn't have a French-language services policy.

It's true. Having worked in the federal government, I know that bilingual employees receive the bonus. I don't know whether it's still in effect, but I think a minor financial aid would help us.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I want to thank you for your testimony and for the work you're doing.

I'd like to ask Mr. Doucet a question.

First of all, I want to thank you for your impassioned comments about the Acadians you represent. As a member who used to be younger than I am now, I want to acknowledge that your argument that the Official Languages Act has not been modernized since before you were born shows how appalling this is and how urgent it is that the act be modernized.

You clearly said you wanted the Official Languages Act to be modernized as soon as possible. We fully support that request. You emphasized that the act should be amended as soon as possible.

Mr. Doucet, you also said that Acadians had been left to their own devices from the very start. The minister's white paper is an admission of the government's failure.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the proposed white paper, which will replace the bill to modernize the act. What do you think about that replacement?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

Looking at the historical timeline, you can see that, in 1988, for example, Brian Mulroney and Lucien Bouchard did an excellent job of publicly promoting its modernization. Mr. Mulroney and his provincial counterparts worked hard to provide a clear explanation of the changes that should be made to the Official Languages Act.

I don't believe that members of the government today have had these discussions with their counterparts. If we look, for example, at part VII of the act…

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I apologize for interrupting you, Mr. Doucet.

We will have a final round of questions.

The time is flying by. That's what happens when you're in good company.

Mr. Blaney and Ms. Lattanzio will have five minutes to ask questions. Mr. Beaulieu and Ms. Ashton will have two and a half.

Go ahead, Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to give Mr. Doucet a chance to finish his thought.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

We are listening, Mr. Doucet.

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

In 1988, a popularization and discussion exercise was conducted with the provinces, something the present government hasn't done.

Preparing a white paper may be precisely what the government wants to do. If that's the case, we aren't opposed to the white paper if it leads to the quick passage of a bill. If we want to improve part VII of the act, which strengthens the federal government's spending power in areas of provincial jurisdiction, Mr. Trudeau will have to talk to his provincial counterparts.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Doucet.

I'd also like to go back to a statement that Ms. Chundunsing made.

She said that the fact that British Columbia's health minister is bilingual facilitated matters. However, a country can't rely solely on the language skills of individuals; it must have mechanisms. Surely that's one of the factors that will have to be considered as part of the modernization.

I'd like to turn back to Mr. Jolin.

With regard to the pandemic study, you mentioned the inequality of funding. You say there's a large francophone population in Ontario. You also emphasized that the federal government's near chronic underfunding was causing problems and that those problems have been exacerbated during the pandemic.

I'd like you to discuss that at greater length.

[Carol Jolin]

Some of our organizations were in trouble even before the pandemic, and others couldn't qualify for funding. The pie is only so big. As I mentioned, we represent 54% of francophones outside Quebec and 23% of non-profit organizations across the country. Other non-profits are being created, but they aren't eligible for funding. For existing non-profits, the pie is so thinly spread out that there isn't enough funding for organizations to survive.

The pandemic made that even clearer when it hit. We estimate that 10% of our organizations may shut down. Since we represent approximately 300 francophone organizations, that means that 30 to 40 organizations could disappear. Every time an organization folds, the surrounding community is weakened.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

I take your point, Mr. Jolin.

Mr. Chair, I'd like to share my speaking time with my colleague John Williamson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Williamson, go ahead for exactly two minutes.

[John Williamson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all the witnesses for being with us this evening.

Mr. Doucet, you cited a very good example of a failure by the New Brunswick government. Generally speaking, have things gone well? We've been told that Quebec has done things right, which surprises me, but that the federal government hasn't.

Did Dr. Russell speak French or have interpretation services in New Brunswick during the pandemic?

[Alexandre Cédric Doucet]

Dr. Russell, the chief medical officer of health, is bilingual. She communicated in both official languages. However, the premier of New Brunswick didn't; he only had simultaneous interpretation.

I'm interested in this question because I'm a law student. Beaulac, one of the leading language law cases, states that what's important in official languages is equal treatment, not accommodations such as simultaneous interpretation.

That's why I said it was important to have a francophone or a bilingual speaker instead of Mr. Higgs because he was unable to communicate effectively in French and thus to comply with the Official Languages Act or to respect the Acadian nation in New Brunswick.