Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Good morning, everyone.

Welcome to meeting number 15 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(f) and the motion adopted by the committee on October 23, 2025, we are meeting today to continue our study on the use of French in government communications.

I would now like to welcome the witnesses we will hear from during the first hour of the meeting.

We first welcome the Honourable Shafqat Ali, President of the Treasury Board. He is accompanied by Bill Matthews, secretary of the Treasury Board, Carsten Quell, executive director of the official languages centre of excellence at the office of the chief human resources officer, and Francis Trudel, associate chief human resources officer.

We also welcome three representatives from the Department of Canadian Heritage: Isabelle Mondou, deputy minister, Julie Boyer, assistant deputy minister, Official Languages, Heritage and Regions, and Sarah Boily, director general, Official Languages.

I will give the floor first to Minister Ali.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I’m listening, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, I would like to understand one thing.

On October 23, our committee adopted a motion concerning the percentage of French usage by the Prime Minister in his activities and all the repercussions on the various government agencies. The first point of the motion stated this:

That…a. The committee invite the President of the Treasury Board and the Minister of Official Languages to appear for no less than two hours each, separately and at two distinct committee meetings, within 21 days, to discuss the state of official bilingualism in Canada and the government’s plan to uphold the equal status of French and English in federal communications; particularly the use of French in federal institutions in Quebec, given that the Charter of the French Language stipulates that French is the only official and common language;

In the notice of the meeting today, which we received very late this morning, I see that the President of the Treasury Board is listed among the witnesses. I am very happy that he is with us this morning. That said, I don’t see the name of the Minister of Official Languages, although I see that representatives from the Department of Canadian Heritage are with us for the first hour of the meeting.

My question is simple: why are the representatives from Canadian Heritage here? It’s not that I don’t like them. It’s because the waters are being muddied.

So, I ask you the question, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

The clerk and I are doing our best. The clerk worked very hard, at the committee’s request, to organize today’s meeting on the subject being studied.

Committee members can take advantage of the presence of representatives from Canadian Heritage to ask them questions, but it’s not mandatory. The only presentation we will hear will be from Minister Ali, after which the members will be able to ask their questions. It’s really for that.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, their evidence is scheduled for the second hour of the meeting. In fact, according to the wording of the notice of meeting, the representatives from the Department of Canadian Heritage are with us from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m.

It’s important to understand that, under the Official Languages Act, the Treasury Board Secretariat has certain responsibilities, while another responsibility is shared between it and Canadian Heritage. I don’t understand why Treasury Board needs representatives from Canadian Heritage to support it. It was not the will expressed in the motion we had adopted. So, I’m wondering about that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

All the members can decide whether they want to ask them questions. For my part, my goal was to organize a meeting that would allow the committee to study the topic it wanted to study. You have the choice to ask them questions or not, but there will be no time allocated for officials from that department to make a presentation.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Can I assume that the Liberals will ask questions to the representatives of Canadian Heritage?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I have no idea, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

All right, you can’t assume that.

You say that the representatives from Canadian Heritage are here, so the members will be able to put questions to both groups, if I can call them that. This means that, if there were a third group, we could ask questions to them without the subject of our questions specifically concerning Treasury Board. Is this what I should understand?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

We are trying to organize a meeting that is as productive as possible to allow you to get answers to the questions you want to ask. That’s what I’m trying to do. If the members of the committee do not want certain people to be present, it is up to them to decide whether they want them to leave.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, I am requesting that the representatives from Canadian Heritage be there for the second hour of the meeting, but that during the first hour, we focus on Treasury Board. That’s what I’m asking for, as a member of Parliament. So, I’ll open the debate, if you don’t mind, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

What is the will of the committee members?

Mr. Beaulieu, the floor is yours.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I would like to know one thing. Will the Minister of Official Languages still appear a little later? By doing it this way, we’re not exempting him from participating in the study, are we?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

The motion that the committee adopted remains in effect. I know that a new minister has just been appointed to this position, namely Minister Miller. The clerk confirms to me that he was invited, but he declined the invitation for today. I think, however, that he expressed the desire to appear later.

Does that answer your question, Mr. Beaulieu?

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Yes, but I assume that, when he appears, the minister will be accompanied by representatives from Canadian Heritage. We will thus see them twice.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

It is up to the committee members to decide. I work at the behest of the committee members. It’s not up to me to decide.

Ms. Chenette, you have the floor.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Allow me to be a little surprised by the discomfort. Ultimately, it’s clear that the first part of the meeting is dedicated to Treasury Board. In doing so, we will be pleased, just like you, to ask questions of the President of the Treasury Board and his team concerning the aspect of Treasury Board that concerns us.

As for the second part, it’s perfectly normal that Minister Miller, who has just taken on that role, may not be as available to answer all questions today. However, given that our two official languages, including French, are so important in our lives, as we have discussed several times in the committee, we have a great opportunity. Indeed, we can maximize the presence of members of the Canadian Heritage team by first asking them questions about what is important.

What I understand is that Minister Miller will be pleased to come see us at a later meeting. Of course, when the minister appears, he comes with members of his team. We can, however, maximize their presence today. For my part, I’m delighted that we can take advantage of this opportunity, instead of wasting an hour saying that the committee has no other guests this morning.

So, for our part, what was proposed by the clerk and the chair is perfectly fine with us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, Mr. Chair, what I understand from my Liberal colleague’s remarks is that the Liberals will put their questions directly to the representatives of Treasury Board during the first hour.

So, what is the need to have people from Canadian Heritage in the room? Is it to prepare for the second hour?

I ask you the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Ms. Chenette, you have the floor. I will then answer Mr. Godin’s question.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

In my opinion, the benefit of having representatives from Canadian Heritage at the table right now is that, if for any reason a synergy and more specific answers are needed, we can then obtain information from them. However, the questions will first be directed to the representatives of Treasury Board. If relevant, we can obtain more precise information from the representatives of Canadian Heritage. That’s where their presence at the table is an asset. Otherwise, they can just listen to the discussion on television. However, they’re here, so we’re best to take the opportunity to ask them the right questions if needed.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I won’t make it a fight, but I find it quite peculiar that a second team of officials is coming to support Treasury Board’s team. My perception is that Treasury Board does not necessarily have a good understanding of the content of the Official Languages Act and protects itself by asking to have the team of officials from Canadian Heritage on site. There you go, it’s been said. I will, however, listen to you, Mr. Chair. For my part, I’m ready to continue, but I find it very unfortunate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Since we have the minister with us until noon, we will make the most of the time we have left in his company.

Minister, you have the floor for five minutes. We will then move on to the questions from the members.

[The Hon. Shafqat Ali, President of the Treasury Board]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for inviting me to speak to you today.

As the President of the Treasury Board, I'm committed to protecting and promoting both official languages. My mandate and priorities related to official languages in the public service....

I'd like to inform you that I'm accompanied by Bill Matthews, secretary of the Treasury Board, and Carsten Quell, executive director of the official languages centre of excellence.

As the President of the Treasury Board, I'm proud to be responsible for the effective implementation and governance of the Official Languages Act across federal institutions. The Treasury Board is responsible for developing and coordinating policies and programs in federal institutions that relate to part IV of the act, which covers services from federal institutions received by the public; part V, which relates to the language of work in federal institutions; part VI, which commits the government to ensuring that English-speaking and French-speaking Canadians have equal opportunities to work in the federal public service; and part VII, which seeks to advance the equality of status and use of English and French.

The TBS plays a key role in guiding federal institutions to make these visions a reality. My department supports federal institutions in achieving the objectives of these parts of the act and monitors their compliance.

Mr. Chair, allow me to dive a bit deeper into part VII of the act, which I know is of importance to the members. On this, the Government of Canada has made commitments such as “enhancing the vitality” of official-language minority communities. This includes supporting community organizations that provide on-the-ground support in areas such as culture, health, immigration and youth.

Part VII includes promoting the recognition and use of both official languages in Canadian society. A practical example is supporting organizations such as Canadian Parents for French and French for the Future.

Finally, part VII includes a commitment to strengthen opportunities for English speakers and French speakers in minority communities to learn in their own language. This takes place from early childhood development to post-secondary learning.

The Treasury Board is responsible for some aspects of part VII, following the modernization of the act in 2023. One key example is making new regulations under part VII. These regulations outline how federal organizations must implement the government's commitments, which I just mentioned, and I look forward to tabling draft regulations for part VII of the act soon. Work to develop them has involved significant engagement, and we have looked forward to receiving additional input from parliamentarians, stakeholders and members of the public.

There are initiatives under way to further support official languages. For example, nearly 180 federal institutions are updating the linguistic designation of some 10,000 federal offices across Canada. This will result in 733 newly designated bilingual offices across the country and more Canadians being able to receive services in their preferred official language. We have also raised the requirements for second language proficiency for supervisors in the public service to ensure that all employees in bilingual regions are supervised in the official language of their choice.

Mr. Chair, the modernized act has strengthened and expanded the official language responsibilities of the Treasury Board. It is our role to ensure accountability and monitor federal institutions' compliance with their official language obligations so that Canadians are served by their government in their preferred official language.

In closing, I want to reaffirm my commitment to the act and my department's role in strengthening its implementation across the government.

Thank you very much.