Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now move on to questions from the members.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here this morning, Mr. President of the Treasury Board. I apologize in advance if I ever address you as minister, but it must be said that you have a special title compared to the other members of the cabinet.

First of all, I would like to know if you acknowledge the decline of French in Canada.

[Shafqat Ali]

Thank you, Chair.

I was looking at the statistics from the census in 2021, and I see that, as the member says, there is a decline in French being spoken.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

To the President of the Treasury Board, with all due respect, I don’t want you to use my words, but I want to know if you, as President of the Treasury Board, acknowledge the decline of French in Canada. If so, what do you think is the extent of that decline?

I would like short answers because I only have six minutes.

[Shafqat Ali]

Mr. Chair, as President of the Treasury Board, my responsibility includes implementation of the Official Languages Act across the public service in all federal departments—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I apologize, Mr. President, but I would like you to answer me with a yes or no, to start.

Do you acknowledge the decline of French, yes or no? The question is simple. I would like a short response, please, out of respect for our work.

[Shafqat Ali]

Mr. Chair, thank you for the question.

I'm here to talk about my mandate as the President of the Treasury Board, which—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

No, no.

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have the floor, Mr. Godin.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

We must remind the President of the Treasury Board that he is not here to talk about his mandate. He is here pursuant to a motion adopted on October 23 following the infamous article from CBC/Radio-Canada stating that the Prime Minister used French 17% of the time.

You have been misinformed if you think you’re here this morning to talk to us about your mandate letter. You’re here to talk to us about this specific situation. Is that clear for you?

[Shafqat Ali]

If I can refer to the Official Languages Act, I can quote what it says my responsibility is as President of the Treasury Board. In subsection 2.1(1), it states:

The President of the Treasury Board is responsible for exercising leadership within the Government of Canada in relation to the implementation of this Act.

It further says:

The President of the Treasury Board shall, in consultation—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. President of the Treasury Board, I must interrupt you once again.

Mr. Chair, may I interrupt the President of the Treasury Board?

[Shafqat Ali]

Give me the opportunity to respond to the question. If my colleague does not want to hear the response to the question, I don't think it would be fair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Before we continue, Mr. Godin, I would like to point out two things.

First, I was advised that we should avoid having two people speaking at the same time. It’s so the interpreters can do their job, but also to protect their health. That’s the first thing to consider. I therefore ask all members to be aware of this aspect.

Secondly, Minister, I would ask you to finish your response. I know that Mr. Godin has other questions, so we need to be aware of that.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

In fact, Mr. Chair, I will withdraw my question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

All right, that’s your right.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Can you tell me how much speaking time I have left? With all that, we’re wasting time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have three minutes left.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

To the President of the Treasury Board: Do you find it normal that the Prime Minister of Canada, a country with English and French as two official languages, only uses French 17% of the time? Moreover, as has been said here at the committee, when he chooses to speak French, it is to discuss topics that I would describe as trivial.

Do you agree on that?

[Shafqat Ali]

Mr. Chair, before I respond to that specific question, I'd just like to remind the member what the act says my responsibility as President of the Treasury Board is. It says:

The President of the Treasury Board shall, in consultation with—

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

I apologize, Minister.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I don’t understand why the President of the Treasury Board does not want to answer my question. I find that unacceptable.

Yet, my question is simple, but I will repeat it for you. I don’t know if it’s because French is a problem for you, as it is for many others in your party. I don’t know.

An October 9 CBC/Radio-Canada report provoked this motion to find out what you, on the government side, will do to improve the use of French both by the Prime Minister and within your institutions.

Do you agree that the Prime Minister only uses French 17% of the time, and that when he does, he chooses to discuss less important topics, in my opinion? The question is simple.

[Shafqat Ali]

Chair, I respectfully ask my colleague not to play politics with the Official Languages Act. As the President of the Treasury Board, my responsibility is to ensure that the Official Languages Act is implemented across the federal public service institutions.

He should allow me.... Yes, I can't speak French. I'm learning; I'm taking lessons. This is my sixth language. I am learning, so you don't question my ability to learn French. I am learning and I don't want to take that personally, but the act provides the charter right to every Canadian to receive any communication or services in the language of their choice. Any person, any Canadian, has a similar right and can choose to communicate in either French or English because of equal rights in the act.

If you want to get technical, I can ask my secretary, Bill Matthews, to give you more information, but you don't question my learning of French. I am committed to bilingualism, because that remains the core of our Canadian identity.

Now I can pass this on to my secretary to respond to that specific question.

[Joël Godin, Conservative, Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am grateful to Mr. Matthews for being available.

That said, I will take back what I said, because I did not mean to make it a personal attack. I am in exactly the same situation as you. I take English classes every week. It’s not easy to learn a second language. I completely agree with you.

However, the purpose of my question was to know if you recognize the situation and if you have taken concrete actions since the release of that CBC/Radio-Canada report.

I thank the President of the Treasury Board.