Official Languages Committee on Oct. 28th, 2025

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

When it comes to attracting talent, you mentioned facing barriers at the provincial level due to regulations adopted in Ontario.

What needs to change? Are you hopeful that this will change? What incentives are you putting in place to attract men and women?

It's not just the francophone community that's at risk, but the entire early childhood sector. Do you have any suggestions for the federal government in this regard?

[Martine St-Onge]

As I said, the College of Early Childhood Educators is putting up one of the biggest barriers. The college is a good thing in that it protects the public, but we're left in a situation where diplomas aren't recognized, regardless of where they come from.

It would be good if there were an agreement between the provinces so that a college diploma, for example, could be transferred from one province to another. We understand that this falls under provincial jurisdiction and that laws differ from one province to another, but some updating could be done.

That said, we could recognize someone's credentials temporarily, provided they take courses, for example in law, to learn about the province. But there's no willingness to do that right now.

We deal with countries whose credentials are considered equivalent, but when people come to Ontario, they have to go through such a long process to get their credentials recognized that they get discouraged. They simply turn to other sectors.

It is really up to the college to put measures in place to allow people arriving from a different jurisdiction to take courses for two or three years to acquire the required knowledge, and also to allow them to be considered trained in the eyes of the law in the meantime.

The regulations are so rigid that we need a ratio of trained to untrained staff. If we don't have enough trained staff, we can't open the groups, even if we have plenty of staff who don't have the professional qualifications. So we can't fill the spaces that have already been allocated.

The lack of capacity doesn't just come down to extra spaces. We also need to have the capacity to provide services with a qualified workforce. Measures should therefore be put in place to allow us to use this workforce while they wait to be considered trained and paid accordingly.

That's also part of the problem. We can't pay the same salary to people who aren't members of the college. When these people arrive from elsewhere, we can imagine the financial pressure they're under, not to mention the stress of change. Even when they apply for a permanent residence permit, they're told they're being denied because they aren't paid enough.

It's really paradoxical, because most staff members get paid that much.

[Madeleine Chenette, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

You've played a major role, and these are huge challenges.

I know that I've run out of time, but I still wanted to acknowledge our friends from Nunavut.

I'll let my colleagues ask the questions I had in mind.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

Thank you, Ms. Chenette.

Mr. Beaulieu, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here.

My first question is for AFESEO.

We know the history of the French language in Ontario. At one time, Regulation 17 even prohibited French-language education and put up all sorts of roadblocks.

Do you sense from the Government of Ontario a willingness to make up for that?

[Martine St-Onge]

That's a difficult question to answer.

We're not really getting that sense, no. Everything goes through the municipalities, who aren't responsible for that. We aren't considered a minority language service. In provincial funding terms, French-language centres are in the funding envelope labelled “inclusion”. So we're considered as just another minority.

We were recently called upon to speak to changes to the instructional setting. One of the suggestions was to include a few French words here and there in the children's daily routine, but the thing is, we're not teaching a language. We're living in French.

French-language centres are essentially unregulated in Ontario. Anyone can claim to offer French-language services even if the quality of the language leaves something to be desired. These are places of assimilation like the ones we used to know before the school boards started running things. There is no system around designations and no system in place to monitor the quality of French-language education.

Nor is there any way to collect francophone-specific data. It's hard to know, for instance, how many French classes were created. Indeed anyone can claim to offer services in French.

So this isn't about reparations, but rather recognition or identification of French-language educational centres. Nothing like that exists at the moment. We don't benefit from an official status that would allow us to collect the relevant data and that would properly regulate these educational programs.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

That's rather incredible. In Quebec, every English speaker has access to English-language schools almost everywhere in the province. If there aren't any because there are truly too few English speakers, then arrangements are made so that there will at least be classes in English.

Would you say the same is true for French in Ontario or in Nunavut?

[Martine St-Onge]

I am less familiar with statistics relating to schools, but I am certainly familiar with those concerning early childhood education centres, which are often integrated into schools as a priority.

I can say that French speakers certainly do not have as much access to minority language schools as English speakers do in Quebec.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I will now turn to the representatives from the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut.

You talked about systemic obstacles.

Can you elaborate?

[Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou]

In Nunavut, only 20% of eligible children have access to French-language education.

Nunavut has existed since 1999, so it is relatively young. The local government has its challenges and French-language education is not one of its priorities. We have been working with the local government for several years. Our school is the only French-language school and we had to go to court to get it expanded.

We want to have the means to offer French-language services to everyone who is eligible. The challenge is that our territory is very vast. It covers 20% of Canada. The cost of living is therefore very high.

The funding we receive, from both the local and federal governments, through Heritage Canada, is far too insufficient to meet the needs in French-language education.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

We might say that there is very little political will on the local government's part to ensure the future of French and to secure education services in French.

Is that fair to say?

[Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou]

Indeed, there is very little will.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

You also talked about the first high school.

What year did it open?

[Judy Romaric Sessua Kuengou]

It opened last year. In fact, the school that has existed for 24 years was expanded. We have more than one high school. We added a wing to the existing school that is being used as a high school. It was a major challenge for us because the school we have had for 24 years did not have a gym. Expanding the school enabled us to have a gym and to offer other services that we could not offer before.

This is the first step, but, as I was saying, only half the eligible children attend school. The school will be full in a year or two, so we are working on increasing the number of spots.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

You have 15 seconds left, Mr. Beaulieu.

[Mario Beaulieu, Bloc, La Pointe-de-l'Île, QC]

I will give the floor to the next speaker.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

That is very kind. Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu.

Mr. Dalton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much.

I thank the witnesses for being here with us.

Ms. St‑Onge, you said there were 36,000 children at the early childhood centres.

Is that correct?

[Martine St-Onge]

In fact, there are 36,000 spots available, but that includes those for children who attend before and after-school care, because children don't start full-time school until they are 4 years old. If we're talking about early childhood only, there are far fewer spots available.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Are the centres connected to French-language schools?

[Martine St-Onge]

In fact, the number of educational centres integrated into a school is proportionally higher among French speakers than among the majority.

There has long been an unwritten rule among French speakers in Ontario that schools are given priority when choosing the location of an educational centre. However, this means that infrastructure is often more difficult to renovate or expand. When you want to create space in existing schools, it takes a considerable amount of time.

When a new school is built, there is also a rule that it must include an early childhood education centre, to avoid having to do so later.

Among francophones, I believe that 89% of early childhood education centres are integrated into a school.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Is there higher demand at institutions that have early childhood education centres?

Is there less supply than there is demand? Is it stable?

Can you also talk about immigration? Does that change things much?

[Martine St-Onge]

When public funding was announced, there was a significant increase in demand for early childhood services from families.

Obviously, before this funding measure, a spot at an early childhood education centre was very expensive for families. Now that the price is more affordable, there has been a surge in demand. The number of people on waiting lists has skyrocketed.

As for your second question, it is true that we are less able to accommodate families if we take into account the families who are waiting for a spot.

Regarding your question about immigration, it is clear that there has also been an increase in francophone immigration. These families are not entitled to benefits under section 23 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but they are still families who use our services.

The number of spots we need just for those who are eligible is not enough, considering that immigrant families are growing in number and adding to the ranks of the French-speaking community.

That is what we want, but if we want to be able to offer spots to these immigrant families who speak French and whose first official language is French, then we need even more spots. These are the families who will continue to ensure the sustainability of the French language in Ontario.

[Marc Dalton, Conservative, Pitt Meadows—Maple Ridge, BC]

Thank you very much, Ms. St‑Onge.

My next question is for the representatives of the Commission scolaire francophone du Nunavut.

You are rather isolated in your region. Can you speak to the lack of connection you have with the other francophone communities outside of your territory?

Are you getting any support? Are any remote learning courses offered?

I would also like you to tell us about the Collège nordique à Yellowknife, which offers training.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yvan Baker]

There are 25 seconds left.