If you look at the recommendations that came out of the task force in 2004, and what the role was between employers and employee groupings, unionized or not, and also the whole question of a pay equity commission, this is a larger issue.
We are all affected by our biases of how we see our own work and other peoples' work. For example, when I was first dealing with pay equity, I could not get my head around the issue of effort in a job.
Then I read a document, and I think it came from the Canadian Union of Public Employees. It explained that we can figure out effort if it's a predominantly male position, for example, on a construction site where the worker is picking up big bags of cement or logs. There's grunting and sweat and all that sort of stuff that goes with it. However, when there is a woman who works at a keyboard all day long, it's not seen as effort. With a woman who works as a cashier in a grocery store who's constantly picking up bags of groceries, that's not seen as effort.
What we're saying is that no matter what the workplace is, large or small, there has to be those discussions. There has to be the fair evaluation, and there has to be resources available for people to do this.
The question was raised about the costs in terms of closing the gap in particular workplaces. When we're talking about this as somehow somewhere else, I want to say to all of you, what's the cost for every one of those women who has not been paid fairly for years? There's a cost to them way more than there is to employers, quite frankly.