If you could, reflect on this piece. We haven't had a lot of private employer groups come here. We've had the public sector, obviously, the minister as the employer of the public sector. We heard from the two largest groups in that private sector, that federally regulated group, some hesitation to be mandated or legislated to do pay equity. At the same time, although they shared with us that they felt they were doing things, and I sincerely believe that they were, they were not able to tell us how close they were or how far they've gone. There were no outcomes. There was no accountability.
I think that will be one of the challenges when we talk about that push-back from employers, because regardless of how often we have said there is a business case, it's not enough to get employers there. Why are some employers so hesitant? You can sort of assume there is the obvious reason, but is it just money or not knowing how big it will be?