Again, Chair, that comes back to the respective responsibilities of deputy ministers and the central agencies. We have always taken the position that if the Treasury Board is the one that sets the management policies, they should know if those policies are working or not.
From there, to say that they should take responsibility for program delivery, I would not go that far. I think it is still up to the deputy minister in those departments to assume responsibility for program delivery, and I think that has to be made clearer. It can be one or the other, but it has to be made clearer, because right now people are pointing their fingers at each other.
Personally, I don't think it's fair to say that the Treasury Board Secretariat should be managing all the programs in government. Essentially if we make them responsible for everything that goes wrong, that's what they'll have to do. I really do believe that the deputy ministers in departments have a responsibility, and I think they would acknowledge this for their departments and the management within those departments. It's how you share the responsibility between the central agency and the deputy ministers that has to be clarified.