There's a two-part answer to the question. There was a time in Ottawa, when Mr. Trudeau was Prime Minister and Michael Pitfield was the clerk, that it was actually thought to be a rather good idea to have regular turnover of ministers and deputies, that it was kind of stimulating to have a new person to deal with and new ideas brought to bear, etc. That's long gone, and the general view is that you do want continuity, that you do want stability. I think a fair amount of headway has been made in that direction.
In my own case, I was a deputy for 17 years. Of those 17 years, I spent five years in the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs, which is a pretty long time; I spent four years in Transport—I'm rounding it a little bit, but that's close—and I spent four years in Employment and Immigration. Those were three departments where I served for quite a long time.
As a general rule in government, three years is a good period; four years is probably better. It isn't the case that seven years would be better yet. I mean, at a certain point you meet yourself coming around the other way, and it's time for somebody with fresh ideas to come into the department. But I think three or four years is a good rule.
Now, why can't you do that? It's because things happen. A deputy minister gets an offer from the Bank of Nova Scotia, sends in a resignation, and you have to replace him.
Then you get other things that will happen. The Prime Minister runs a cabinet shuffle and for one reason or another will appoint Minister X to a department where maybe the minister doesn't have any knowledge or isn't all that comfortable. You then find an experienced, very knowledgeable deputy and say, “I know it's a good idea to leave you in your job, but it's even more important for you to go in to support this new minister I've just appointed, so will you please go?” There are cases like that. There are unexpected things that happen.
I don't think anybody today says what Mr. Pitfield and Mr. Trudeau believed, that turnover is a good thing. What they cope with is a number of practical problems of limiting turnover to what you'd really like it to be, and what you'd like it to be is three or four years, in my book. But sometimes stuff happens and people get moved more frequently. It's not a good thing.